2023 Convention Amendments

[FlightOfTheShortGuy]

Unfortunately the problem lies in our own argument. You can't scream that the FAA is severely understaffed and workers are on 6-day work weeks, but then turn around and ask to work less.

Agreed. But the change won’t happen over night. If we start fighting for it now who knows, maybe it could be a thing in 10 years.

I'd take the 32 hr work week. I value my free time and my time with family. I know a lot in this career field chase money and will work OT nonstop and more power to them but that's not for me. I was at a contract tower that basically worked 32 hr work weeks and it was amazing.

Plus a 32 hour work week is a pay raise in a way. You are getting paid the same working less. And that would give you the opportunity to work 28 hours of OT. That also would put pressure on the FAA to hire more because otherwise they’re paying us in even more OT. They already abuse us with OT because that’s still cheaper than hiring another person. But eventually that could cause a movement within the FAA. I think that’s a win-win for us. Way way easier said than done. But the 40 hour work week has got to go. They came up with that random number 100 years ago. It’s supposed to be the way of the working world until the end of time? Hell no.

 

[ChuckNovember]

I like the Art 124 resolution.

 

[NotKC]

Would they actually pay ot 1.5x after 32 hours though?

 

[doodii]

Would they actually pay ot 1.5x after 32 hours though?

Only if you contribute to the PAC.

 

[Phillytroll69]

lol faa email? Wtf is that?

Half the people here want the union president to to plug in instead of running the union and making the workforce bigger via CRWG changes. You think reducing the operational time of the workforce by 20% is needed/a good idea?

Well if we ask for once a week we get once a month.
This is not a reduction in work force or operational time.

For instance your elms that take "8" hours every year, you're responsible to KNOW. Safeguarding/ashsavi, eeoc, etc. BUT if you take more than 1 hour you're a shitbag.

The failure of low staffing is a management problem. You should have ground delay programs, miles in trail, extra tbfm NOW.

We're in the news for recent incidents more often with more pressure, you can blame whoever you want...or we could blame that there's no more time off or cash awards, no more fam flights, most controllers are on 6 day work weeks to be lower middle class, and a review day would promote safety.

Do you think if the tower controller in AUS had spent time reviewing abnormal runway ops and winds the day before they would have repeatedly messed up left and right?

Do you think if you had time to study new T/Q routes as vors are decommissioned you'd have to call and ask if a route is OK?

Do you think if you knew how to read the faa notam page for your tower/sector/area you could have a general idea of what the pilots thought?

I dunno if one day a week is too much...but it needs to be more than one half day of elms a year and 10 minutes of cedar before your shift.

Would it be an illegal work action if we all printed out and read THE WHOLE book when the changes came out?

 

[CoffeeIV]

Do you think if the tower controller in AUS had spent time reviewing abnormal runway ops and winds the day before they would have repeatedly messed up left and right?

Do you think if you had time to study new T/Q routes as vors are decommissioned you'd have to call and ask if a route is OK?

I agree with most of what you said but that Austin controller royally fucked up and I doubt some recurrent training was going to fix that. As for the T and Q routes, we have to call because TMU likes to keep secrets for job security or something. Though it is nice to get an updated LOA months after the fact.

 

[Move78]

Idk why people think we need more staffing number everywhere. Most facilities would be swimming in bodies if they ever got to 100. The CRWG is a diversion. I’m sure there some select places that need the number revised. But that should just be happening normally. Anything that would make our QOL better would be a good idea.

It doesn’t happen “normally” because it’s budgetary.

 

[32andBelow]

It doesn’t happen “normally” because it’s budgetary.

But what facility is at 100%? Maybe some tiny towers that can use a couple extra people. How is the staffing number wrong when we don’t even have the staffing number

 

[CaptainObvious]

But what facility is at 100%? Maybe some tiny towers that can use a couple extra people. How is the staffing number wrong when we don’t even have the staffing number

I’d rather they pump people in to get to 100% over working 6 days a week every week and being a couple sick hits away from a staffing trigger. Rather they hire more people so I can get a normal weekend with the family and not get held over all the time

 

[32andBelow]

I’d rather they pump people in to get to 100% over working 6 days a week every week and being a couple sick hits away from a staffing trigger. Rather they hire more people so I can get a normal weekend with the family and not get held over all the time

Yah so my question is what does making us 70% staffed instead of 80% staffed accomplish? It’s just an exercise on excel.

 

[ManBearPig]

Shortened work weeks isn't worth even talking about. It's not going to happen.

 

[Seeyoufly]

Well if we ask for once a week we get once a month.
This is not a reduction in work force or operational time.

For instance your elms that take "8" hours every year, you're responsible to KNOW. Safeguarding/ashsavi, eeoc, etc. BUT if you take more than 1 hour you're a shitbag.

The failure of low staffing is a management problem. You should have ground delay programs, miles in trail, extra tbfm NOW.

We're in the news for recent incidents more often with more pressure, you can blame whoever you want...or we could blame that there's no more time off or cash awards, no more fam flights, most controllers are on 6 day work weeks to be lower middle class, and a review day would promote safety.

Do you think if the tower controller in AUS had spent time reviewing abnormal runway ops and winds the day before they would have repeatedly messed up left and right?

Do you think if you had time to study new T/Q routes as vors are decommissioned you'd have to call and ask if a route is OK?

Do you think if you knew how to read the faa notam page for your tower/sector/area you could have a general idea of what the pilots thought?

I dunno if one day a week is too much...but it needs to be more than one half day of elms a year and 10 minutes of cedar before your shift.

Would it be an illegal work action if we all printed out and read THE WHOLE book when the changes came out?

I doubt you could make a winnable argument that the training and review you are offering would be better utilized at home, than it would in person, with real people, doing in person instruction.....

Idk why people think we need more staffing number everywhere. Most facilities would be swimming in bodies if they ever got to 100. The CRWG is a diversion. I’m sure there some select places that need the number revised. But that should just be happening normally. Anything that would make our QOL better would be a good idea.

More people/better staffed facilities does equal better QOL. It's better schedules, more leave opportunities, less overtime.

 

[Expectvectors24]

Every RVP holds a meeting before every convention with the reps essentially telling them how national prefers they vote on each item. There could be some variance depending on how well each rep chooses to listen to their membership afterwards but don’t expect much to change outside of what the national vision is.

 

[FightingIrish2012]

Every RVP holds a meeting before every convention with the reps essentially telling them how national prefers they vote on each item. There could be some variance depending on how well each rep chooses to listen to their membership afterwards but don’t expect much to change outside of what the national vision is.

This is 100% true, it’s why almost all conventions never have even one tallied vote. All the amendments are approved or denied by summary “voice” votes or whatever it is as 99% of the people there scream in support of opposition and it’s such a majority they don’t bother to hold a vote.

 

[accskp]

As well as a giant pay raise. Should have asked for one or the other. Not both.

The question was "has the 32-hour workweek idea ever been taken seriously?". The answer was no it has never been taken seriously for over 40 years.

 

[Seeyoufly]

This is 100% true, it’s why almost all conventions never have even one tallied vote. All the amendments are approved or denied by summary “voice” votes or whatever it is as 99% of the people there scream in support of opposition and it’s such a majority they don’t bother to hold a vote.

Or maybe they don't all go to roll call votes because they take about 3 hours for each roll call vote.....

This is 100% true, it’s why almost all conventions never have even one tallied vote. All the amendments are approved or denied by summary “voice” votes or whatever it is as 99% of the people there scream in support of opposition and it’s such a majority they don’t bother to hold a vote.

This will be my 5th convention and 5th pre-convention meeting... Ive never been told how to vote, and I've never heard an RVP explain what "national's" preference was on a vote without being asked to give that information.

 

[boots]

This will be my 5th convention and 5th pre-convention meeting... Ive never been told how to vote, and I've never heard an RVP explain what "national's" preference was on a vote without being asked to give that information.

Ok rich thanks for the input

 

[32andBelow]

This will be my 5th convention and 5th pre-convention meeting... Ive never been told how to vote, and I've never heard an RVP explain what "national's" preference was on a vote without being asked to give that information.

So you voting to let us vote on all negotiations?

 

[ManBearPig]

This is 100% true, it’s why almost all conventions never have even one tallied vote. All the amendments are approved or denied by summary “voice” votes or whatever it is as 99% of the people there scream in support of opposition and it’s such a majority they don’t bother to hold a vote.

Eh. In Houston the NEB put forth an amendment, with a bunch of NEB speaking in support of the amendment. The body rejected the amendment, and they had to come back the next day with the amendment re-written. I can't remember if the revised one even passed.

And 90% of the amendments are stupid AF, and don't even deserve a second.

 

[FlightOfTheShortGuy]

Shortened work weeks isn't worth even talking about. It's not going to happen.

People probably thought the same thing before the 40 hour work week was nationalized. It should always be talked about.