C90 Training Failure

DeltaBravo

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FAA
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104
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SAN San Diego Tower
Here’s an update from myself, an unsuccessful C90 trainee.

This is a cautionary tale for anyone with no radar experience wanting to try their luck at C90.

Before I get too far, I should say I’m completely grateful management and NATCA at C90 were willing to give me a chance. I convinced them I was a good candidate, but ultimately I don’t believe I, or anyone else with my experience, should have been afforded the opportunity. The facility simply doesn’t appear to have the resources to spend on teaching radar basics.

I should also mention I’m a controller with many years service at a level 8 core 30 tower, but no radar experience. I knew from the beginning my training at C90 would be an uphill climb, but I wanted to be a C90 controller. So I got picked up, sold my home and moved my family across the country.

I took to training like I do anything in life- as long as I apply myself I’d be successful. So I did my best at the academy and absorbed what I could. Soon after returning I started sims. I was given south sat. so I was learning radar foundations while also learning to run a tight final at MDW, the ins and outs of south sat. airspace, et cetera. Almost daily my instructors would mention I should really go to a lower level radar facility, learn the foundations then try my luck at C90. When it came time for my 3 graded runs, I did really well on the first and third, but completely bombed the second. This meant I didn’t have enough points to pass the sim module which automatically triggered a TRB. Since I’d been told repeatedly I should go elsewhere to learn radar basics I began considering if I’d made the right decision to train at C90. I also considered what a drag I would be on the facility if I were given another chance and made it to the floor. Had I been given another chance, it could be possible I’d finish the program and be successful, but would it take longer? Would I be dead weight? Would other controllers see me as a risk? At my TRB I did not advocate to continue training. The panel agreed and without even getting the chance to work live traffic, my time as a trainee at C90 quickly came to a close.

My family and I were devastated. I knew it could happen, but never thought failure would happen so quickly. I was embarrassed; embarrassed to show my face at the facility and embarrassed to explain to my friends and family why we would no longer be living in Chicago.

We loved Chicago and really wanted to stay. I did my best to convince them to let me transfer to another facility in the area… I was even willing to do MKE even though it’s not at all close. But of course C90’s bid MOU only allows training failures to return to their original facility. This sucks, but makes sense… they don’t want controllers using the bid as a path to simply get out of their facility, quit training then transfer elsewhere.

In the end, the monetary price to move across country twice, break and start leases, and everything in between cost far more than the bid allotted. There was also the psychological price of failure with which I’m still dealing.

If you think you’re capable and you want to be at C90, give it a go. The facility used to have a toxic atmosphere, but they seem to have mostly turned that around. Most of the controllers were very welcoming and seemed genuinely excited to see motivated controllers coming through the door.
 
Was there PCS money? If so, did you have to give it back?
Yes, the C90 priority bid provides a fixed relocation payment of $27K. Keep in mind this is taxable income so I think the payment came to about $22K after taxes. I spent much more than this moving back and forth.
 
Yes, the C90 priority bid provides a fixed relocation payment of $27K. Keep in mind this is taxable income so I think the payment came to about $22K after taxes. I spent much more than this moving back and forth.

Was there PCS money? If so, did you have to give it back?
And no you’re not expected to pay it back.

Edit: “If you withdraw within a year you have to. If you wash out in the sims WITHIN your year you don’t repay it back.”
 
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Sorry man. Major respect to posting this and possibly helping out future C90 trainees.

If Chicago is still in the cards, hit me up if you're ever interested in giving ZAU a shot. No idea what SAN's staffing looks like (and how the hell do you live out there at lvl8 pay??)

Warning: we still get lots of terminal -> enroute training failures, but it's probably an easier transition with a much better training setup.

Chicago gets a bad rap but the suburbs are great place overall and level 12 pay goes pretty far here. Best of luck to you bro.

Edit: Also, I know it's too late but if you ever give another hard facility a shot, don't give in so easily. I've seen trainees who sucked so hard at the beginning, come an ass hair away from getting shown the door, and then one day it just "clicks" and they ultimately check out and become good controllers. Training at 12 is an overload of knowledge (like trying to drink water from an open fire hydrant), and it takes your brain time to "consolidate" so much knowledge in a way which you can use it quickly. I study languages in my free time and it happens all the time - zero progress for months, don't remember shit, and then all the sudden, everything comes together. We're happy to go above and beyond for hard-working guys that want to stay in the area. Lazy fucks can gtfo but it clearly seemed like your heart was in it.
 
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Sorry man. Major respect to posting this and possibly helping out future C90 trainees.

If Chicago is still in the cards, hit me up if you're ever interested in giving ZAU a shot. No idea what SAN's staffing looks like (and how the hell do you live out there at lvl8 pay??)

Warning: we still get lots of terminal -> enroute training failures, but it's probably an easier transition with a much better training setup.

Chicago gets a bad rap but the suburbs are great place overall and level 12 pay goes pretty far here.

Best of luck to you bro.
Since you brought it up, the ironic part of this story is I accepted a TOL as a supe at ZAU before I received a TOL for C90. I weighed the options and decided the “right” thing to do would be to take the controller route first then maybe consider supervisor later. Had I just stuck with ZAU I’m almost certain I’d still be there and happy with my choice.

Unfortunately, since we had such a terrible experience with C90, I’ll probably ride out the rest of my career at SAN. I’m far more risk adverse now.
 
Sorry man. Major respect to posting this and possibly helping out future C90 trainees.

If Chicago is still in the cards, hit me up if you're ever interested in giving ZAU a shot. No idea what SAN's staffing looks like (and how the hell do you live out there at lvl8 pay??)

Warning: we still get lots of terminal -> enroute training failures, but it's probably an easier transition with a much better training setup.

Chicago gets a bad rap but the suburbs are great place overall and level 12 pay goes pretty far here. Best of luck to you bro.

Edit: Also, I know it's too late but if you ever give another hard facility a shot, don't give in so easily. I've seen trainees who sucked so hard at the beginning, come an ass hair away from getting shown the door, and then one day it just "clicks" and they ultimately check out and become good controllers. Training at 12 is an overload of knowledge (like trying to drink water from an open fire hydrant), and it takes your brain time to "consolidate" so much knowledge in a way which you can use it quickly. I study languages in my free time and it happens all the time - zero progress for months, don't remember shit, and then all the sudden, everything comes together. We're happy to go above and beyond for hard-working guys that want to stay in the area. Lazy fucks can gtfo but it clearly seemed like your heart was in it.
Thanks for the edit. I’ve seen the same training patterns you mentioned. In hindsight maybe I shouldn’t have given up so easily. I was just so glaringly blindsided at the failure that I made a conservative decision.
 
I’ll probably ride out the rest of my career at SAN
Or try to get picked up at MYF for the level 10. Or you can try SCT. Really no downside to trying either since you're able to fast track back to SAN at any point in training.
Without needing to move, trying other facilities should be a priority.
 
Or try to get picked up at MYF for the level 10. Or you can try SCT. Really no downside to trying either since you're able to fast track back to SAN at any point in training.
Without needing to move, trying other facilities should be a priority.
I’ve definitely considered it. Like so many other facilities, SAN can’t seem to get close to any number to release anyone.

We’ll see!
 
Huge respect for making a conscious decision to end training if you knew it wasn’t in the cards.

There are people that go to high level facilities knowing they’ll never verify, but they’ll gun hard to get their hours back and ride out the pay as long as they can.

There are also people who are shallow enough to talk shit on those in your position like you’re some burden on everyone on your training team and the whole facility and a huge waste of their time etc etc.

Brother, you followed your desires, gave it your best shot and made a sound decision to end training when you knew this wasn’t for you. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that and I wish you and your family the best in the rest of your career!
 
Yeah I should I just haven't gotten around to it because I'm actually really happy here. Quality of life at my fac is super high. Plus chances of getting SAN on a prior exp bid might be low.
 
And no you’re not expected to pay it back.
If you withdraw within a year you have to. If you wash out in the sims WITHIN your year you don’t repay it back. We do have many people who have been unsuccessful in training at first and then come back to succeed. You’re right, C90 doesn’t have the resources to teach basic terminal radar training. We are not a facility that does that. Thank you for your hard work while at C90, we have come a long way
 
There are also people who are shallow enough to talk shit on those in your position like you’re some burden on everyone on your training team and the whole facility and a huge waste of their time etc etc.

Really? That'd be retarded for people to talk shit on someone who is genuinely trying.

It's different if someone isn't putting forth the effort. But if someone is really giving it their best shot, you can't hate on that
 
Really? That'd be retarded for people to talk shit on someone who is genuinely trying.

It's different if someone isn't putting forth the effort. But if someone is really giving it their best shot, you can't hate on that
I agree but you’d be surprised man. The real egotistical ones in our profession instantly label anyone who withdrawals from training or washes out a complete waste of time for everyone involved. Whether they gave it their absolute best or not. People assume WAY too much these days.
 
Since you brought it up, the ironic part of this story is I accepted a TOL as a supe at ZAU before I received a TOL for C90. I weighed the options and decided the “right” thing to do would be to take the controller route first then maybe consider supervisor later. Had I just stuck with ZAU I’m almost certain I’d still be there and happy with my choice.

Unfortunately, since we had such a terrible experience with C90, I’ll probably ride out the rest of my career at SAN. I’m far more risk adverse now.
The part about you, as a tower only person, getting picked up as a supervisor at a ARTCC is one of the biggest problems with the Agency now. Especially, when high level radar controllers are being bypassed for those supervisor positions because their facilities can’t release them without deviations, including people currently at ZAU. This whole FAN approach to management selections (favoritism, availability, nepotism) is why the Agency’s standards have turned into absolute shit. People should move up to a mid level/lower high level facility, get more experienced, and then move to the highest level facilities, as controllers, first then supervisors. The Agency wouldn’t have this issue if we had more controllers, but people are given limited options because of short staffing, NCEPT, and priority release bids. How in the hell does the Agency think current practice is a good idea at all?

I’m sorry you moved across the country, but you didn’t set yourself up for success by going someone else to gain radar experience first before going to C90. A good Agency, would have allowed you the ability to move to say Phoenix or Salt Lake City or St. Louis, for a few years, before making the move to Chicago. I don’t think any person should be moving to a higher level radar facility (say level 10 and up) without having radar experience. It’s hard to explain to people that get here or C90 or N90 until they actually experience and see it for themselves how hard of a transition it is to work traffic. It’s completely different than working a lower level facility or a mid level tower. Meanwhile, we have a CPC, here at A80, who can’t get selected at C90 despite ranking number one on their ranked list because of “staffing.”Wonderful Agency decisions made all around!
 
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