CRWG

[BDUB]

TSA checkpoint travel numbers (current year versus prior year(s)/same weekday) | Transportation Security Administration

www.tsa.gov

Throughput is right around the same as 2019 yet we still have staffing triggers, retirements, etc. Feel like things are gonna get a lot worse

Just need those politicians to get delayed enough and something might happen

 

[CoffeeIV]

TSA checkpoint travel numbers (current year versus prior year(s)/same weekday) | Transportation Security Administration

www.tsa.gov

Throughput is right around the same as 2019 yet we still have staffing triggers, retirements, etc. Feel like things are gonna get a lot worse

I'm probably wrong but I feel like NATCA should be pushing for facility upgrades to be based off of traffic count and/or passengers. The FAA gets a lot of it's funding from the Airport & Airway Trust Fund which I believe nearly the entire Air Traffic budget was paid for by it. Many airports have increased traffic count yet decreased operations due to larger aircraft being used. More rules/phraseology has been added to the workload since the level system was implemented and I doubt it's been revisited.

Before anyone says VFR towers would get screwed, the AATF is funded by fuel tax as well as passenger fees so they every VFR pilot is contributing as well.

 

[32andBelow]

I'm probably wrong but I feel like NATCA should be pushing for facility upgrades to be based off of traffic count and/or passengers. The FAA gets a lot of it's funding from the Airport & Airway Trust Fund which I believe nearly the entire Air Traffic budget was paid for by it. Many airports have increased traffic count yet decreased operations due to larger aircraft being used. More rules/phraseology has been added to the workload since the level system was implemented and I doubt it's been revisited.

Before anyone says VFR towers would get screwed, the AATF is funded by fuel tax as well as passenger fees so they every VFR pilot is contributing as well.

I think that’s something you push for in a new contract. But they aren’t interested in that.

 

[boots]

I think that’s something you push for in a new contract. But they aren’t interested in that.

New contract LOL

 

[rhombus]

ased operations due to larger aircraft being used. More rules/phraseology has been added to the workload since the level system was implemented and I doubt it's been revisited.

Before anyone says VFR towers would get screwed, the AATF is funded by fuel tax as well as passenger fees so they every VFR pilot is contributing as well.

I'm probably wrong but I feel like NATCA should be pushing for facility upgrades to be based off of traffic count and/or passengers. The FAA gets a lot of it's funding from the Airport & Airway Trust Fund which I believe nearly the entire Air Traffic budget was paid for by it. Many airports have increased traffic count yet decreased operations due to larger aircraft being used. More rules/phraseology has been added to the workload since the level system was implemented and I doubt it's been revisited.

Before anyone says VFR towers would get screwed, the AATF is funded by fuel tax as well as passenger fees so they every VFR pilot is contributing as well.

Increased passenger count and less ops is a trend everywhere, not just limited to specific airports. Which facilities are seeing increasing passenger numbers and are getting downgraded because their traffic count is not keeping up?

 

[GulfBravoPapa]

Increased passenger count and less ops is a trend everywhere, not just limited to specific airports. Which facilities are seeing increasing passenger numbers and are getting downgraded because their traffic count is not keeping up?

MSP, DTW

 

[boots]

MSP, DTW

Honestly need to downgrade a bunch of facilities and stop making up shit as we go.

 

[32andBelow]

Honestly need to downgrade a bunch of facilities and stop making up shit as we go.

This is such an L thing for any controller to say

 

[rhombus]

MSP, DTW

Between 2010-2019 DTW passenger count increased 13.6%. MSP passenger count increased 20.4%. That’s fine but when you compare it to other major towers in the same timeframe they don’t keep up. DEN increased 32.8%, LAS up 29.6%, EWR up 40%, CLT up 31.1%, PHX up 28.4%, ORD up 26.3%, ATL up 25.6%, DFW up 23.7%, SFO up 45.9%, etc.

DTW and MSP (especially DTW) are stagnating while other facilities are continuously getting busier. That’s why they got downgraded. LAS had it’s most passengers EVER in 2022. MSP and DTW haven’t bounced back from the pandemic in the same way. Not counting ‘20 and ‘21 they both had their least amount of passengers in the last 20 years. MSP can probably recover. DTW is probably stuck for a while.

Source: Easily Googlable info

 

[echster]

Call me a cynic...

I cannot see anything other than the infrastructure money for facilities and these CRWG numbers as working in tandem. In short, if you understand the math used for the 804 process, the CRWG numbers are nothing less than enhanced justification to consolidate a large number of facilities. And, if you cannot see the NAS moving towards more consolidated TRACONs and more contracted-out Tower-only facilities, that's on you.

I'm very interested in reading how Congress is going "to fix the 804 process" in the upcoming FAA Reauthorization bill. After all, they have tinkered with the 804 process in the past. What's to stop them from doing so again?

 

[FightingIrish2012]

Call me a cynic...

I cannot see anything other than the infrastructure money for facilities and these CRWG numbers as working in tandem. In short, if you understand the math used for the 804 process, the CRWG numbers are nothing less than enhanced justification to consolidate a large number of facilities. And, if you cannot see the NAS moving towards more consolidated TRACONs and more contracted-out Tower-only facilities, that's on you.

I'm very interested in reading how Congress is going "to fix the 804 process" in the upcoming FAA Reauthorization bill. After all, they have tinkered with the 804 process in the past. What's to stop them from doing so again?

I wish you were right but I think you’re completely wrong. I think NATCA loves having as many tiny facilities as possible even if some average 30K operations a year and they drag their feet with 804 other then N90 which was apparently someone’s pet project.

 

[Bandit117]

I wish you were right but I think you’re completely wrong. I think NATCA loves having as many tiny facilities as possible even if some average 30K operations a year and they drag their feet with 804 other then N90 which was apparently someone’s pet project.

Santa clause has gone on record against more 804 consolidations but if the staffing shortage is maintained it may be the only way forward, natca could try to kick and scream but if there’s not enough to people to do the job they will have to start consolidating and contracting out places. Why staff 3 levels 4s with 36 people when you have a center that’s short an whole area.it will be a staffing triage of sorts, what facilities do we need staffed up for core function of the NAS and what is extra. if things don’t change

 

[CoffeeIV]

Some TRACONS need to be consolidated. You have places like RDG that have a maximum of surface to 6000 I believe. I don't even think they're the smallest TRACON airspace out there either. On the selfish side of it, you get rid of some of these places and theoretically there should be more money saved that could go to our salaries since you need less people and less money on infrastructure upkeep. But instead they'd combine it up, leave us short staffed and salaries the same.

 

[32andBelow]

Santa clause has gone on record against more 804 consolidations but if the staffing shortage is maintained it may be the only way forward, natca could try to kick and scream but if there’s not enough to people to do the job they will have to start consolidating and contracting out places. Why staff 3 levels 4s with 36 people when you have a center that’s short an whole area.it will be a staffing triage of sorts, if things don’t change

This type of thinking is what failing businesses do. They think they can literally just take 20 living humans and drop them in a totally new spot and all 20 will agree to the new terms. I’m not against consolidation per se. I just don’t think the concept of forced transfer to fix staffing would ever actually work.

 

[Pendingleave]

It would take AUS 17 quarters of picking up one on the NCEPT every quarter, everybody certifying and nobody leaving to get to the new staffing target. Something tells me that mid level facilities need another source of controllers.

 

[32andBelow]

It would take AUS 17 quarters of picking up one on the NCEPT every quarter, everybody certifying and nobody leaving to get to the new staffing target. Something tells me that mid level facilities need another source of controllers.

They need to redo the entire hiring and training system. Like 100% change from scratch. And they need a big local hiring component

 

[Horno]

Somebody definitely needs to punch rich Santa in his face…maybe that’ll wake him up to connect more with the controllers he represents

Best method to certify these days or to move up in NATCA. Either one

 

[Move78]

Somebody definitely needs to punch rich Santa in his face…maybe that’ll wake him up to connect more with the controllers he represents

The Agency hires controllers and places controllers

 

[32andBelow]

The Agency hires controllers and places controllers

But their system creates the problems that the membership now has. So if you fix that you can help fix our problems

 

[Move78]

But their system creates the problems that the membership now has. So if you fix that you can help fix our problems

Correct