CRWG

[32andBelow]

MLI - level 5 up/down, projected level 6 this year

Total NCEPT releases since it was established: A80 (2022 but they came back to MLI in 2023), ORD (2023), ZOA (2024 priority bid) & Y90 (2025). We were only able to release someone to Y90 because the ZOA person didn’t have their FOL yet.

CPCs that have taken sup jobs-6
CPCs to Staff Support-1
N90-2, both washed/withdrew. One is now a sup the other went for the ZOA bid.
Quit-7
Hardship-4 (1 came back to MLI)
Washout-9
Retire-2 +1 currently on extension

Current trainees-3
New CRWG PPT-16/21 with 1 projected retirement, 1 going to Y90 before 2/26, 1 medical DQ in that 16 not added yet

It’s honestly not a bad starter facility at all. Great group of people, area is nice, traffic has grown in the last few years which has put us over the level 6 line (traffic validation this summer), flight schools, carriers, John Deere classic, Oshkosh route, QC air show, SAFECON 2026 will be here. It’s just in the middle of the USA and not many are from here/want a chance to make more money.

Quit 7 is crazy

 

[HammerHead]

Quit 7 is crazy

Can confirm, I was at a facility similar to this. I was the 4th person to quit after they canned our sweet covid schedule. We also had 1 go to n90, several sup bids, and double the hardships while I was there.

The numbers will vary a little but this is what the average updown is like. Sorry but not sorry for adding to the statistics.

 

[SteveMcCroskey]

+1 currently on extension

...and how will that play out with new seniority policy?

 

[Phillytroll69]

That's what it looks like


As far as being released for a tmu position that isn't super clear at the moment. I'm assuming if the center is able to release on ncept then they should also be able to release for a bid position as well. But if they aren't in a position to release for ncept then it would likely require a deviation and deviations aren't super clear with these changes. Or at least I haven't looked into it. There is some deviation language on the natca.org/ncept page to look at. Have your spouse reach out to the facrep at the facility they are applying for and get in contact with the tmu area rep and introduce themselves and their interest in the job. A simple phone call goes a long way.

Also have spouse max pac donations ASAP

 

[Move78]

MLI - level 5 up/down, projected level 6 this year

Total NCEPT releases since it was established: A80 (2022 but they came back to MLI in 2023), ORD (2023), ZOA (2024 priority bid) & Y90 (2025). We were only able to release someone to Y90 because the ZOA person didn’t have their FOL yet.

CPCs that have taken sup jobs-6
CPCs to Staff Support-1
N90-2, both washed/withdrew. One is now a sup the other went for the ZOA bid.
Quit-7
Hardship-4 (1 came back to MLI)
Washout-9
Retire-2 +1 currently on extension

Current trainees-3
New CRWG PPT-16/21 with 1 projected retirement, 1 going to Y90 before 2/26, 1 medical DQ in that 16 not added yet

It’s honestly not a bad starter facility at all. Great group of people, area is nice, traffic has grown in the last few years which has put us over the level 6 line (traffic validation this summer), flight schools, carriers, John Deere classic, Oshkosh route, QC air show, SAFECON 2026 will be here. It’s just in the middle of the USA and not many are from here/want a chance to make more money.

The ZOA FOL date isn’t relevant. ERR outbounds count at the point of selection.

 

[mcubed820]

...and how will that play out with new seniority policy?

I guess we’ll see if he decides to extend next year? Lol wdym?

The ZOA FOL date isn’t relevant. ERR outbounds count at the point of selection.

Idk with the ZOA selection from the prior panel, it put us at 16/20. But since they didn’t have a FOL, we were still showing 17/20, so the person was able to be selected to Y90.

 

[Acquired Taste]

Idk with the ZOA selection from the prior panel, it put us at 16/20. But since they didn’t have a FOL, we were still showing 17/20, so the person was able to be selected to Y90.

Under the old ppt and ncept rules, offer letters only counted towards projections. The only thing that mattered when the official ppt was published was how many actual cpcs were in the building on the day the number locked. If you had 17/20 cpcs today and 7 of them had been selected on the last panel but you had 10 AGs that just showed up last week to made your projected >85%, you could still release another one.

Edited because I was wrong.

 

[Spoony90]

I guess we’ll see if he decides to extend next year? Lol wdym?

I think means if they are gonna reset his seniority immediately to zero and force him off his RDOs

 

[low.approach22]

Under the new rules, that is no longer true. Now if you had 17/20 and 2 get selected this panel, you would need 2 new cpcs before the next panel to be able to release. This change will also help to kill ncept movement.

Not necessarily.. depends on the release dates of the two that got selected, and how many trainees are in the building and where they are in training. Read the rules and look at how the ETT works.

My facility could release 2 with the old rules, now it’s 4 because we have a bunch of trainees and a quick check out time. What’s killing movement is the current targets being raised simultaneously.

 

[Acquired Taste]

Not necessarily.. depends on the release dates of the two that got selected, and how many trainees are in the building and where they are in training. Read the rules and look at how the ETT works.

My facility could release 2 with the old rules, now it’s 4 because we have a bunch of trainees and a quick check out time. What’s killing movement is the current targets being raised simultaneously.

Ahhh my bad. Just reread the changes and I don't know where I got that misconception. I guess in theory, facilities with less than 1 year training times would actually be able to release more under these rules as new trainees would immediately be reflected in the 12 month ett projection.

 

[mcubed820]

I think means if they are gonna reset his seniority immediately to zero and force him off his RDOs

No according to what was said at convention, it is not retroactive. So seniority will only be reset for extensions going forward. Our guy is good until February

 

[Nothanks]

I think means if they are gonna reset his seniority immediately to zero and force him off his RDOs

So dramatic. No they aren’t

 

[Move78]

Idk with the ZOA selection from the prior panel, it put us at 16/20. But since they didn’t have a FOL, we were still showing 17/20, so the person was able to be selected to Y90.

The FOL was not relevant. The ZOA selection was showing outbound in your projected at the point of selection and they didn’t come out of your AOB until they physically left.
Nothing puts you at 16/20 before they actually leave.

 

[mcubed820]

The FOL was not relevant. The ZOA selection was showing outbound in your projected at the point of selection and they didn’t come out of your AOB until they physically left.
Nothing puts you at 16/20 before they actually leave.

Shitty imo lol

 

[Bandit117]

...and how will that play out with new seniority policy?

Oct 1 it takes effect

 

[ChuckNovember]

Can’t speak for every facility but the process for developing a new staffing number for a busy center was pulling the area rep and a random FLM in to a meeting and asking them to “imagine their 90th percentile busiest day” and then going hour by hour and asking which positions would be open at that time. It was completely subjective and farcical. Facreps were coached by RVPs to jack their numbers to the fucking moon and any facility that developed a lower/even number was instructed to go back and fix it. Most facreps just tried to make it so that 85% staffed on paper was fully staffed in reality to account for the current “temporary rules” of NCEPT.

Anyway, everyone knows it’s bullshit. That’s why Cleveland center needs 100 more controllers than Atlanta center to work a million less airplanes per year. These were not data driven decisions. The people who end up in roles like NCEPT rep are the type who would struggle to put a function in a fucking spreadsheet.

 

[22papa]

Can’t speak for every facility but the process for developing a new staffing number for a busy center was pulling the area rep and a random FLM in to a meeting and asking them to “imagine their 90th percentile busiest day” and then going hour by hour and asking which positions would be open at that time. It was completely subjective and farcical. Facreps were coached by RVPs to jack their numbers to the fucking moon and any facility that developed a lower/even number was instructed to go back and fix it. Most facreps just tried to make it so that 85% staffed on paper was fully staffed in reality to account for the current “temporary rules” of NCEPT.

Anyway, everyone knows it’s bullshit. That’s why Cleveland center needs 100 more controllers than Atlanta center to work a million less airplanes per year. These were not data driven decisions. The people who end up in roles like NCEPT rep are the type who would struggle to put a function in a fucking spreadsheet.

Hey, give them some time now. They’re still busy working on updating the err demand sheet from Jan 22nd. Ncept reps are a tough job.

 

[32andBelow]

Can’t speak for every facility but the process for developing a new staffing number for a busy center was pulling the area rep and a random FLM in to a meeting and asking them to “imagine their 90th percentile busiest day” and then going hour by hour and asking which positions would be open at that time. It was completely subjective and farcical. Facreps were coached by RVPs to jack their numbers to the fucking moon and any facility that developed a lower/even number was instructed to go back and fix it. Most facreps just tried to make it so that 85% staffed on paper was fully staffed in reality to account for the current “temporary rules” of NCEPT.

Anyway, everyone knows it’s bullshit. That’s why Cleveland center needs 100 more controllers than Atlanta center to work a million less airplanes per year. These were not data driven decisions. The people who end up in roles like NCEPT rep are the type who would struggle to put a function in a fucking spreadsheet.

Our center numbers make little sense and it was a very quick process. No workgroup or input or anything. It was like every facility just got asked for a number

 

[GulfBravoPapa]

Our center numbers make little sense and it was a very quick process. No workgroup or input or anything. It was like every facility just got asked for a number

Every facility did get asked for the number. The ATM and FacRep were supposed to come up the number they needed.

 

[22papa]

Every facility did get asked for the number. The ATM and FacRep were supposed to come up the number they needed.

Foolproof method