What do you mean by keeping higher level facilities out east?Genuine question on the Center front…
Do we actually think NATCA wants ABACUS (the center traffic count program) to succeed? Or do they want it to fail?
My understanding is the program is approaching its financial death date before ever actually gathering any data.
Are NATCAs interests purely keeping the higher level facilities out east?
I think it only poses a threat to those that aren’t actually working the level or complexity of traffic that their levels say they are. If you aren’t, then you aren’t. You can’t control the airlines and GA pilots to make them fly more with your facility.It feels as if they want ABACUS to fail because it’ll result in several facilities in the Northeast being downgraded while places like ZJX and ZDV would be upgraded
In the brains of anyone at or associated with a level 12, ABACUS purely poses a threat.
They tell us all the time that it is gathering data 🤔Genuine question on the Center front…
Do we actually think NATCA wants ABACUS (the center traffic count program) to succeed? Or do they want it to fail?
My understanding is the program is approaching its financial death date before ever actually gathering any data.
Are NATCAs interests purely keeping the higher level facilities out east?
SFO tower is level 10 and the top of the band hits the congressional cap.I don’t understand this take. You need 29% locality to get to the congressional cap as a 12 cpc. Adding a 13 would increase wages
You guys really think passenger count is a better metric for Appendix A than operations? You’re gonna take all the 9 vfr towers that are already underpaid and make them 5s.
Sorry I know you just did 100 ops in the pattern last hour but there’s only 2 guys in the plane so it counts the same as 1 triple 7 overflight. Womp womp noise.
And…SFO tower is level 10 and the top of the band hits the congressional cap.
Again I don’t understand what adding a level 13 would do….it would just raise the starting wage of a 13 and make them cap out faster than a 12….if it was in line with the difference of a 11, it would be a relatively small increase (like 5k a year).And…
Z levels are so weird. If the traffic count grows they build more sectors and eventually more areas. Within a center there can be a 30-40% difference in volume based on area. At the end of the count we can only guarantee 1 thing, and it’s that someone will be upset.It feels as if they want ABACUS to fail because it’ll result in several facilities in the Northeast being downgraded while places like ZJX and ZDV would be upgraded
In the brains of anyone at or associated with a level 12, ABACUS purely poses a threat.
I still don’t get what’s so confusing here. Are you capped and are missing everything that happens below you? It’s another level. It would raise the salaries of everyone that was a 13 unless you were already capped. What does “some of us are already capped” have to do with anything? There are plenty of buildings that don’t hit the congressional cap in the cpc band.Again I don’t understand what adding a level 13 would do….it would just raise the starting wage of a 13 and make them cap out faster than a 12….if it was in line with the difference of a 11, it would be a relatively small increase (like 5k a year).
Again, Southwest’s B738 and B38M hold the exact same amount of people…
Southwest Seat Maps
And I’m well aware of what the M means. I work them every single day.
And FYI, the Max and 800 are the exact same length, technically the Max is a hair shorter in height but that doesn’t matter. The differences with the planes isn’t in the cabin at all. The B38M you are referring to that has that many seats is the Max 200 variant of the 8, which no US carrier flies. It gets that many seats because it uses slimline seats and has an extra pair of exits that is required to get those extra seats in as the 800 and 8 Max are already at their regulatory limit due to exits.
I think there should be a level 1000There should be a level….15
Cap them out sooner. Some places are working 1million plus Ops. There is such a huge gap between those places and the other 12s on the low end of the band.What would level 13 do? The pay cap will still be the pay cap...and we already have level 10s hitting the law limited cap. I don't disagree that a rework is in order, but I don't know that adding a "level 13" fixes anything.
Maybe the Southwest versions do but I never argued that. The UAL Max holds more than the Southwest version. Then you add in the B737-700 to compare and its an even larger gap.
Also Boeing says you're wrong:
The B738 is 129 ft 6 in long.
The B38M is 129 ft 8 in long.
Now argue whatever you want, Boeing says you're wrong and I won't continue the convo.
Oh and up until 2017 Southwest had the B737-300, with a max of 149 seats.
Just brought up Southwest because you did…You could expand on the program and be an either/or type thing. If traffic is down but passengers up you can upgrade or vice versa. Pattern traffic pays for gas which pays fees for the FAA budget as well.
I'm just trying to come up with ways to increase pay for all of us. As it stands, some airlines like Southwest continue to get more B737 Maxes which hold a lot more passengers than the 700 and 800 series. More downgrades will happen at this rate imo.
What's with all this talk about ZDV needing to be upgraded, from what I hear all they do is send ZLA stacks all day. ZDV should get iHop pay stacking planes like pancakes 🥞It feels as if they want ABACUS to fail because it’ll result in several facilities in the Northeast being downgraded while places like ZJX and ZDV would be upgraded
In the brains of anyone at or associated with a level 12, ABACUS purely poses a threat.