KLAS Tower Issues

MJ said:
Do the new procedures include not being wasted?
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Whoa whoa whoa

Justin said:
In my opinion if this was medical related. I don't believe we would be seeing this type of reaction from the FAA.
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Let's say it's not, what do you think it is then? The FAA thinks combining at midnight is what makes the difference between showing up drunk or not?
 
"In my opinion if this was medical related. I don't believe we would be seeing this type of reaction from the FAA."

^ This guy must not have been in the Agency long lol. There will always be a knee jerk reaction to anything like this whether it makes sense or not. Anyway though, it is hard for me to believe that she showed up that "wasted". To be so drunk to the point you can't talk and are randomly giggling, you probably would not have made it up the tower stairs or elevator. I can't imagine a controller would report to work like that when it is so easy to call in sick. Plus the hour long clip before where she seems fine basically disproves the drunk theory. So it was probably some kind of medical condition but who knows what, if you are having a stroke or something similar it is usually obvious enough that you would not try working through it. Very strange.
 
FightingIrish2012 said:
"So it was probably some kind of medical condition but who knows what, if you are having a stroke or something similar it is usually obvious enough that you would not try working through it.
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This quote from the FAA would seem to indicate otherwise:
“No safety events occurred during this incident. The controller is being placed on administrative leave and restricted from working air traffic.” I also note that NATCA's statement didn't mention her well being, choosing to instead refer to the "outstanding work that that is done every day..."
 
DoctorKiller'sRule said:
This quote from the FAA would seem to indicate otherwise:
“No safety events occurred during this incident. The controller is being placed on administrative leave and restricted from working air traffic.” I also note that NATCA's statement didn't mention her well being, choosing to instead refer to the "outstanding work that that is done every day..."
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Sounds like damage control.
 
I'm kind of torn. There's a ton of different medical problems that could have caused it and left little proof... And I know she was fine before the tape, but there's also some synthetic opiates(harder to test for) that are measured in micrograms. Could be easy to over do it with those...I really don't like to imagine that someone in this profession would do that.
 
Shouldn’t there be a mid supervisor at a level 11 facility? Where was the sup?
 
PushingTin said:
Anyone who is being honest knows that in many (read: most, almost ALL?) facilities the Mid shift operation is absolutely bare bones minimum staffing... often in a cowboy fly by the seat of your pants kind of way. We "make it work". Even where schedules allow a somewhat decent overlap into the mid, early shoves are the norm and expectation - for better or worse - . The kind of volume some controllers work on their mid shift, is the same kind of volume that if it was let's say 5pm, there would be sectors/positions being split, coordinators, Data, Assist, D-sides open, possible flow control, extra "sets of eyes", better breaks, etc.

I am not saying that this isnt the way we want it, just pointing out that this is the way it is. I think we should be honest about that. The mid shift is treated very differently than all other shifts. Even CBA rights feel and seem diminished on the mid. Sick Leave? GASP, thats a no no, dont "bang the mid!" or you will be "looked at" harder. Leave? forget about it. Anyway, when there is no margin for error... a situation like this is like a nuclear bomb going off to the agency, NATCA, entire career field. IMO this should have a far greater impact on ATC than the ridiculous "sleeping" witch hunt of several years ago. That brought the 9 hour rule. That brought "fatigue MOU". Very few facilities use "fatigue" leave, even though it is enumerated crystal clear in the CBA. It is highly frowned upon as a "scam", which reenforces the double standard i'm pointing out about mids. Facilities often schedule insanely fatiguing rotations which include mids. Mon mid, Tue mid, day, day, day. Friday mid, then a monday mid, then day day day. Random mids in the middle of your week. Anything goes! As long as that 9 hour rule is hit. They say things like "well, we are ALLOWED to schedule you that", and they are. Not all facilities have strong locals to combat this, especially the smaller ones.

I hope the LAS controller will come out of this situation with their career intact, and get whatever help she needs. I think it will end up being a good thing though in the end. (hey as the FAA has already said.... "Safety Was Never Compromised!!!") In the current status quo, mid shifts are run recklessly. there is NOT the staffing to fix that overnight, but there should eventually be. Even if that means OT to cover. When mangers give that straw man argument about "but...but...i checked the logs and the TIME ON POSITION was low!!" IE, you guys are "scammers" You can look them in the eye and call BS on their BS. The fire dept at the base of the tower is always fully staffed. No one from the public would walk in and call those scammers. They'd say, im glad the trucks were there when one of our jets slid off the RWY. This incident is the exception that proves the rule that I am articulating. How the midnight shifts are run is dangerous and needs to change. More redundancies not less. More staffing not less. This LAS controller is the victim of a very very poor system. Shame on everyone who empowers it! :yay:
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?Victim...
 
This controller is not the victim of anything. This is all on her.

In my ten year career thus far I have only ever worked one mid shift that had traffic similar to a day shift, and that was post snow event with Thanksgiving traffic so it was an exception to the rule. Typically I talk to 5-10 aircraft for my entire section of the mid shift.

That being said there are definitely facilities where the mid shifts is nuts (ie cargo airports) and they have a full rotation of controllers working.
 
Hope her career stays intact you got to be fking kidding.

Also... mid first shift back?? Not saying it’s not possible but that’s kind of strange.
 
PushingTin said:
Do you think professional pilots should be accepting clearances from a clearly "incapacitated" controller? Even while calling her out and mocking her in the process? the mid shift has the propensity to be "nuts" at any time. Having more than 1 person in -or readily available- the operation would be a good thing not a bad thing. I'm w her
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On break is considered readily available. Do you mean an extra person always up there monitoring/supervising/working?

You’re with HER?!?

Better have two controllers in the tower in case I decide to get high at work, if not then it’s not my fault i did too much and passed out, it’s the faa fault?

I can’t get over how extreme the lack of personal responsibility is. Sure sometimes people need help but when do the free passes end? This ain’t Home Depot where she’s just a cashier or something. Goddamn.
 

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