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Let's Argue About Enroute Evals

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PlaneFlasher

Active Member
Messages
51
You just launch him below the lowest guy on the board.
Sure in the practice problems just launch him below the lowest aircraft headed over SQS. In the current evals there may or may not (wink wink) be these two situations.

An aircraft is enroute over SQS headed to HLI or UJM when you get the call and your VVBA wants to go south. Depending on where the enroute aircraft is if you release VVBA below the enroute aircraft you get an error for over restricting. (You have to use the fixes to determine if the aircraft is clear of KGWO departure )

A VVBA calls immediately after a departure. Depending on how quick you were to answer the call you have to wait for the aircraft to vacate the MIFR or MEA (and add an airway into the route) or vacate 030. (Can’t give an EFC you have to wait on the phone as you stare down the data block)

These situations are not rocket science and most should be able to handle them but they are more complex than what you see in practice problems.
 
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OKbusyB

Trusted Contributor
Messages
403
Sure in the practice problems just launch him below the lowest aircraft headed over SQS. In the current evals there may or may not (wink wink) be these two situations.

An aircraft is enroute over SQS headed to HLI or UJM when you get the call and your VVBA wants to go south. Depending on where the enroute aircraft is if you release VVBA below the enroute aircraft you get an error for over restricting. (You have to use the fixes to determine if the aircraft is clear of KGWO departure )

A VVBA calls immediately after a departure. Depending on how quick you were to answer the call you have to wait for the aircraft to vacate the MIFR or MEA (and add an airway into the route) or vacate 030. (Can’t give an EFC you have to wait on the phone as you stare down the data block)

These situations are not rocket science and most should be able to handle them but they are more complex than what you see in practice problems.
Leave the phone alone for a few seconds when the departure clears. It can F off when you take care of a few other things, then, handle the VVBA.. Do you think you should be shown every specific thing leading up to evals, or is expecting you to apply what you’ve learned over the last few weeks too much to ask?
 

32andBelow

Legendary Member
Messages
4,786
Leave the phone alone for a few seconds when the departure clears. It can F off when you take care of a few other things, then, handle the VVBA.. Do you think you should be shown every specific thing leading up to evals, or is expecting you to apply what you’ve learned over the last few weeks too much to ask?
Bruh using vertical for departure departure is too hard.

maintain 3000 hold for release
 

PlaneFlasher

Active Member
Messages
51
Leave the phone alone for a few seconds when the departure clears. It can F off when you take care of a few other things, then, handle the VVBA.. Do you think you should be shown every specific thing leading up to evals, or is expecting you to apply what you’ve learned over the last few weeks too much to ask?
I don’t think every situation should be shown in the practice problems (Quote me if I did say this). I do think it makes no fucking sense to practice 10 no transponders and never see one on the evals. Practice emergencies up the ass and never see one on evals (I know a lot of people do). I think there should be more and more complex VVBA practice for how many of them appeared on evals. Do you really think more practice means they have to show us the exact situations that are on evals? Shit I think it’d be a good rule to show all these once or twice a problem tasks the exact same number of times in the practice problems.
 

32andBelow

Legendary Member
Messages
4,786
I don’t think every situation should be shown in the practice problems (Quote me if I did say this). I do think it makes no fucking sense to practice 10 no transponders and never see one on the evals. Practice emergencies up the ass and never see one on evals (I know a lot of people do). I think there should be more and more complex VVBA practice for how many of them appeared on evals. Do you really think more practice means they have to show us the exact situations that are on evals? Shit I think it’d be a good rule to show all these once or twice a problem tasks the exact same number of times in the practice problems.
There was an emergency on one of the old evals. The evals are constantly changing. Picking random things from the practice problems.
 

PlaneFlasher

Active Member
Messages
51
There was an emergency on one of the old evals. The evals are constantly changing. Picking random things from the practice problems.
Yep. Half of my class had multiple emergencies. There may or may not have been an emergency that required a point out because they clipped another sector while turning. You don’t see this in practice problems but I’m cool with it because we practice point outs and we practice emergencies enough. I agree there has to be an element of surprise and everything doesn’t have to appear but I do want what appears to be practiced enough at equal complexity of what appears one evals.
 

32andBelow

Legendary Member
Messages
4,786
Yep. Half of my class had multiple emergencies. There may or may not have been an emergency that required a point out because they clipped another sector while turning. You don’t see this in practice problems but I’m cool with it because we practice point outs and we practice emergencies enough. I agree there has to be an element of surprise and everything doesn’t have to appear but I do want what appears to be practiced enough at equal complexity of what appears one evals.
All these tasks are super easy. They’re just trying to get you to lose your cool. They’re trying to pressure you to launch the blue angle through another plane. But you just say negative for traffic and you deconflict it.
 

OKbusyB

Trusted Contributor
Messages
403
I agree there has to be an element of surprise and everything doesn’t have to appear but I do want what appears to be practiced enough at equal complexity of what appears one evals.
Then they wouldn’t be evaluating if you can apply knowledge in different situations with the same basic principles. They’re called practice problems for a reason.. What would be the point of evals if you’ve already done everything at the same complexity? Heaven forbid you have to think on your feet..
 

PlaneFlasher

Active Member
Messages
51
Then they wouldn’t be evaluating if you can apply knowledge in different situations with the same basic principles. They’re called practice problems for a reason.. What would be the point of evals if you’ve already done everything at the same complexity? Heaven forbid you have to think on your feet..
I honestly have no clue what you are on about . . . Are you trolling? The point of a test or evaluation is for you to show that you can apply your knowledge in different situations with the same basic principles. I’m only speaking about the Academy. The reason why scanning is the most important thing is because if you are able to recognize situations (like a low and slow guy clipping approach) you can apply the same basic steps to get the task at hand done.
 

32andBelow

Legendary Member
Messages
4,786
I honestly have no clue what you are on about . . . Are you trolling? The point of a test or evaluation is for you to show that you can apply your knowledge in different situations with the same basic principles. I’m only speaking about the Academy. The reason why scanning is the most important thing is because if you are able to recognize situations (like a low and slow guy clipping approach) you can apply the same basic steps to get the task at hand done.
Ya. That’s what this job is. But your here saying they made it way harder when we all had to do the same things.
 

OKbusyB

Trusted Contributor
Messages
403
I honestly have no clue what you are on about . . . Are you trolling? The point of a test or evaluation is for you to show that you can apply your knowledge in different situations with the same basic principles. I’m only speaking about the Academy. The reason why scanning is the most important thing is because if you are able to recognize situations (like a low and slow guy clipping approach) you can apply the same basic steps to get the task at hand done.
That’s exactly what I’m saying.. You’re going off about not seeing all these VVBA complex situations that could show up in evals when all of the basic principles still apply. They give you the tools in practice. You have to use them yourself in the evals.
 

PlaneFlasher

Active Member
Messages
51
That’s exactly what I’m saying.. You’re going off about not seeing all these VVBA complex situations that could show up in evals when all of the basic principles still apply. They give you the tools in practice. You have to use them yourself in the evals.
Just to clarify what my view is and what I said is I would have liked to see more complex VVBA situations in the practice problems. Not the same ones on evals just ones that are less obvious than a SQS overflight at 140. I'm not sure why you keep suggesting I want the FAA to show us exactly what's on evals. On the current evals, there is really nothing else that shows up at a different level of complexity than the practice problems. Different situations of course but same level of complexity.

Let's agree to disagree and leave it there.
 

COWTOWN

Trusted Contributor
Messages
141
If your signature is correct and you went through in 2018 . . . then you are far removed from the Academy. Practice problems have changed, evaluators have changed and the rules have changed. So your experience was different. I am not comparing the Academy to the real world. I am not trying to belittle your advice or experience. All I am saying for those who may still be at the Academy is that the current Radar evals are not easy. They are challenging. I have a sample of about 20 people who evaled in the last month. A decent percentage of whom averaged in the 90s. None of them say evals were "really easy." Walking my dog is easy. Doing the dishes is easy.
Bruh, everyone knows it was harder back in the day! Also, I never attended a pass/fail course at academy 🔥Carry on.
 

tunwno

Trusted Contributor
FAA
Messages
471
Facility
ZLA Los Angeles Center
I’m going on the record to say that the evals are easy. There’s nothing on the evals that you don’t know going into them. Especially compared to how they were before this “new” way they’re doing things in OKC.
 

Rodsmash

Trusted Contributor
FAA
Messages
113
Facility
ZJX Jacksonville Center
It's funny how they spend so much time on a scenario like VVBA that isn't applicable in real life.

If someone were to ask for a departure with an unrestricted climb anywhere it would be a hard no. "Climb and maintain 3000 (until I get you radar identified) expect FLxxx 10 minutes after departure."
 

32andBelow

Legendary Member
Messages
4,786
It's funny how they spend so much time on a scenario like VVBA that isn't applicable in real life.

If someone were to ask for a departure with an unrestricted climb anywhere it would be a hard no. "Climb and maintain 3000 (until I get you radar identified) expect FLxxx 10 minutes after departure."
The point is it gets people to make a deal when they have traffic when they normally wouldn’t have.
 

DankVectorz

Legendary Member
FAA
Messages
1,497
Facility
N90 New York Tracon
It's funny how they spend so much time on a scenario like VVBA that isn't applicable in real life.

If someone were to ask for a departure with an unrestricted climb anywhere it would be a hard no. "Climb and maintain 3000 (until I get you radar identified) expect FLxxx 10 minutes after departure."

quick climbs are routine at many places
 

KTreu42

Active Member
FAA
Messages
82
Facility
ZLA Los Angeles Center
I had 2 situations on my first eval that we never had on problems. Both of them, I made the correct decision on, as we had seen all of the elements of the situations and I made educated guesses, but we had not seen the exact situations I had. Probably a good evaluation method, tbh... Can you use what you've learned in the past to understand how to resolve a relatively novel situation.
 
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