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Let's Argue About Enroute Evals

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32andBelow

Legendary Member
Messages
5,042
I don’t want to be ther guy. But the evals are really easy. The problem is people don’t know how to scan. Your eyes need to be on the radar the whole time. Forget about the EDST. That thing will throw you down the shitter if you are looking over there.
 

tunwno

Trusted Contributor
FAA
Messages
472
Facility
ZLA Los Angeles Center
The way that I see it, is when you walk in the lab for the first time vs the last time what’s the difference? To me there was virtually no difference at all. Each and every time you walk in to the lab you were given a problem to solve. Not a impossible problem, just a problem. It was as simple as solving it.
 

32andBelow

Legendary Member
Messages
5,042
The way that I see it, is when you walk in the lab for the first time vs the last time what’s the difference? To me there was virtually no difference at all. Each and every time you walk in to the lab you were given a problem to solve. Not a impossible problem, just a problem. It was as simple as solving it.
Well you don’t know wtf you’re doing the first time LOL
 

PlaneFlasher

Active Member
Messages
51
I don’t want to be ther guy. But the evals are really easy. The problem is people don’t know how to scan. Your eyes need to be on the radar the whole time. Forget about the EDST. That thing will throw you down the shitter if you are looking over there.
I am not sure when you made it through the Academy and don't mean to suggest you had easier problems but my instructor who has been around the block said that recent problems are more challenging while at the same time some rules have been relaxed to try to even it out. Just for reference, my problems were all comparable to the harder 12s with a lot of weird situations but 0 emergencies. So if you evaled when a bunch of strips used to print, you couldn't PVD until close enough to make the call and you had to use distance for point outs . . . . . you may be talking about a different class of problems.

I agree scanning the radar is the most important thing but scanning the EDST is pretty damn important. The main difference is that an EDST scan takes less time because you are mostly looking for color. Even if you can technically only use the radar, the EDST is a tool to help you search for FL180, find the aircraft aimed at MLU holders and etc. I think one should spend the right amount of time looking at the EDST.

I think it is a bit ridiculous to say that Radar evals are "really easy". Even if they are really easy for you, you must realize that they aren't objectively easy. Throughout most problems you are task saturated, with a or multiple point outs due and the phone blowing up. Even someone in my class who put up one of the highest scores ever said he was busting ass.
 

OKbusyB

Trusted Contributor
Messages
403
I am not sure when you made it through the Academy and don't mean to suggest you had easier problems but my instructor who has been around the block said that recent problems are more challenging while at the same time some rules have been relaxed to try to even it out. Just for reference, my problems were all comparable to the harder 12s with a lot of weird situations but 0 emergencies. So if you evaled when a bunch of strips used to print, you couldn't PVD until close enough to make the call and you had to use distance for point outs . . . . . you may be talking about a different class of problems.

I agree scanning the radar is the most important thing but scanning the EDST is pretty damn important. The main difference is that an EDST scan takes less time because you are mostly looking for color. Even if you can technically only use the radar, the EDST is a tool to help you search for FL180, find the aircraft aimed at MLU holders and etc. I think one should spend the right amount of time looking at the EDST.

I think it is a bit ridiculous to say that Radar evals are "really easy". Even if they are really easy for you, you must realize that they aren't objectively easy. Throughout most problems you are task saturated, with a or multiple point outs due and the phone blowing up. Even someone in my class who put up one of the highest scores ever said he was busting ass.
32andBelow and I aren’t that far removed from the academy. All of the things you’re talking about, we had to do.

They don’t initially feel “easy,” but if you handle everything at the right time, I wouldn’t consider it “busting ass.” It’s just the point to have a lot to do at once. To misquote Justin Hammer from Iron Man 2, “In comparing real life busy, “Academy busy” would make Ulysses look like it was written in crayon.”
 

32andBelow

Legendary Member
Messages
5,042
32andBelow and I aren’t that far removed from the academy. All of the things you’re talking about, we had to do.

They don’t initially feel “easy,” but if you handle everything at the right time, I wouldn’t consider it “busting ass.” It’s just the point to have a lot to do at once. To misquote Justin Hammer from Iron Man 2, “In comparing real life busy, “Academy busy” would make Ulysses look like it was written in crayon.”
This.
Im telling you. Eyes on the scope 75% of the time and you won’t miss thing. The biggest thing that sinks people is missing pointouts.

my a lead made us close or EDST for a couple problems and de conflict with our scan. I hated it at the time. But he was absolutely right. The kids that would rely on trial plans and alerts were the ones that missed point outs.
 

PlaneFlasher

Active Member
Messages
51
32andBelow and I aren’t that far removed from the academy. All of the things you’re talking about, we had to do.

They don’t initially feel “easy,” but if you handle everything at the right time, I wouldn’t consider it “busting ass.” It’s just the point to have a lot to do at once. To misquote Justin Hammer from Iron Man 2, “In comparing real life busy, “Academy busy” would make Ulysses look like it was written in crayon.”
If your signature is correct and you went through in 2018 . . . then you are far removed from the Academy. Practice problems have changed, evaluators have changed and the rules have changed. So your experience was different. I am not comparing the Academy to the real world. I am not trying to belittle your advice or experience. All I am saying for those who may still be at the Academy is that the current Radar evals are not easy. They are challenging. I have a sample of about 20 people who evaled in the last month. A decent percentage of whom averaged in the 90s. None of them say evals were "really easy." Walking my dog is easy. Doing the dishes is easy.
 

OKbusyB

Trusted Contributor
Messages
403
If your signature is correct and you went through in 2018 . . . then you are far removed from the Academy. Practice problems have changed, evaluators have changed and the rules have changed. So your experience was different. I am not comparing the Academy to the real world. I am not trying to belittle your advice or experience. All I am saying for those who may still be at the Academy is that the current Radar evals are not easy. They are challenging. I have a sample of about 20 people who evaled in the last month. A decent percentage of whom averaged in the 90s. None of them say evals were "really easy." Walking my dog is easy. Doing the dishes is easy.
So they weren’t easy, but a decent percentage averaged 90s? How does that make any sense?
 

PlaneFlasher

Active Member
Messages
51
So they weren’t easy, but a decent percentage averaged 90s? How does that make any sense?
To be specific I would say about 20% averaged 90s. We might just have different opinions on what makes something hard or easy. I'll share mine . . . I got my degree with a pretty high GPA and no question of whether or not I'd complete it but I wouldn't describe it as easy. I averaged a high 90 on Nonradar evals but wouldn't describe it as easy. Some people find everything about the Academy easy and kill it playing video games every day and studying minimally. Others bust their ass and scrape by. The point is it's all relative and the entire program is not objectively easy. If it was my class wouldn't have been the 4th class of my instructors 15+ year career where everyone passed.
 

PlaneFlasher

Active Member
Messages
51
Dude I went in 2017 when the pass rate was 50%. We had the dreaded “Monroe problem”. That probably ended 10,000 people’s carriers
Y'all are getting defensive like I'm attacking you. My point is your experience was different. I don't know what your problems were like and you don't know what the current problems are like. I'm just sharing my classmates, some other grads I know and my experiences this past month. It is factually true that problems have changed (we know this because there are instructors who keep a list of scenarios reported by students), rules have changed and evaluators have changed. Y'all think the problems were easy. There may be people who read this thread and eval in the future and agree with you. I personally know about 20 people who would disagree with you and there may be people who eval in the future who fall into this group. Shit all 20 of us may be shit controllers in the future who knows. All I'm saying is Radar evals are neither objectively hard or easy but they are designed to challenge everything you learn.
 

32andBelow

Legendary Member
Messages
5,042
Y'all are getting defensive like I'm attacking you. My point is your experience was different. I don't know what your problems were like and you don't know what the current problems are like. I'm just sharing my classmates, some other grads I know and my experiences this past month. It is factually true that problems have changed (we know this because there are instructors who keep a list of scenarios reported by students), rules have changed and evaluators have changed. Y'all think the problems were easy. There may be people who read this thread and eval in the future and agree with you. I personally know about 20 people who would disagree with you and there may be people who eval in the future who fall into this group. Shit all 20 of us may be shit controllers in the future who knows. All I'm saying is Radar evals are neither objectively hard or easy but they are designed to challenge everything you learn.
And I’m just saying to scan and not rely on EDST. EDST puts you down the shitter
 

tunwno

Trusted Contributor
FAA
Messages
472
Facility
ZLA Los Angeles Center
Keys to passing:
solve your red alerts asap
eyes on the scope for point outs
Launch all departures low
If they ask for a blue angle quick climb don’t fucking do it.
VVBA is a quick 16 point loss. Not that it happened to anyone ???
 
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