NCEPT going away?

Jennifer E

Member
FAA
Messages
49
Facility
ZOA Oakland Center
The newest rumor around my facility is ncept will never come back. Supposedly, they were considering shutting it down before the shutdown and the shutdown has made it easier to just go away.

Thoughts?
 

Stinger

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
1,154
So how would transfers work?
Prior to NCEPT, each facility individually would select from anyone that has an ERR submitted there.
There was also CPC job postings on USAJobs that you could apply to.
Release dates were whatever the ATMs agreed to.
 

tskiman

Member
Messages
37
Any idea when we will find out if they get rid of ncept? Or is it just a typical we are going to get rid of it soon and then two years from now it just disappears lol
 

FightingIrish2012

Forum Sage
Messages
365
NCEPT is a train wreck, the worst thing NATCA ever did. And it was all NATCA the agency is not smart enough to come up with something so complicated. If it works so well like we are screamed at at NIW, Convention and CFS why is the CPC staffing percent worse now then it was at inception and we were just passing stuff out at airports describing that the CPC headcount is at a 30 year low (despite the FAA finally hitting its hiring goals is 2016 and 17)? Also causes old friends to back stab each other to leapfrog each other to try to leave. How is that for unity? NCEPT needs to be eradicated more then polio.
 

PushingTin

Forum Sage
Messages
503
NCEPT revolutionized the transferring process for the good. Not perfect but way better than anything else there ever was. If you think politics between ATMs and cronyism is better, than you must have the best ATM in the agency. Both NATCA and the FAA openly are able to blacklist controllers from transferring at their whim without NCEPT. Furthermore IF you are lucky enough to get your "dream" facility, its discouraging to have losing facility tell you an arbitrary date 2 years in advance. Some people say oh i dont care im just happy to be going to _______ ! I call that stockholm syndrome. NCEPT makes a formal process to what was total unfair rigged BS. To those who say it causes old friends to "backstab" each other, I disagree. The fact that NCEPT prioritizes going to the facility with most need, means its doing what its supposed to be doing. Now...if your staffing number is corrupt/rigged like N90's, thats a whole different story. And if you don't believe its phony I have a bridge to sell you. Hopefully NCEPT keeps getting tweaked and improved upon and never goes away.
 

CaptainObvious

Forum Sage
Messages
728
NCEPT revolutionized the transferring process for the good. Not perfect but way better than anything else there ever was. If you think politics between ATMs and cronyism is better, than you must have the best ATM in the agency. Both NATCA and the FAA openly are able to blacklist controllers from transferring at their whim without NCEPT. Furthermore IF you are lucky enough to get your "dream" facility, its discouraging to have losing facility tell you an arbitrary date 2 years in advance. Some people say oh i dont care im just happy to be going to _______ ! I call that stockholm syndrome. NCEPT makes a formal process to what was total unfair rigged BS. To those who say it causes old friends to "backstab" each other, I disagree. The fact that NCEPT prioritizes going to the facility with most need, means its doing what its supposed to be doing. Now...if your staffing number is corrupt/rigged like N90's, thats a whole different story. And if you don't believe its phony I have a bridge to sell you. Hopefully NCEPT keeps getting tweaked and improved upon and never goes away.
Oh look more N90 hate. Also I was told by an flm from a desirable high level facility that the good old boy system was still in effect, and easier for the management team, so if you think that went away with ncept you’re naive. Also flooding training departments with dozens of new people all at the same time vastly increases delays both for them and people already at the facility, so explain how that’s such an amazing process
 

PushingTin

Forum Sage
Messages
503
Oh look more N90 hate. Also I was told by an flm from a desirable high level facility that the good old boy system was still in effect, and easier for the management team, so if you think that went away with ncept you’re naive. Also flooding training departments with dozens of new people all at the same time vastly increases delays both for them and people already at the facility, so explain how that’s such an amazing process
Facilities still have a collaborated ranking list, so yes it stands to reason that the more highly desired facility the more people ranked on that list and therefore necessarily harder to crack the top. That is NCEPT 101 and speaks for itself. And that list is better than the nothing that there was.

And it's not hate. It's the state of play which is widely known and understood within the agency, but rarely discussed. At least here it can be said without being deleted. Other places will get you excommunicated, physically threatened, and worse.

Most FLMs arent too sharp (especially at the "big" facilities, which seems counterintuitive until you've been there and done that), which is why they're FLMs and not controllers. Ask @Robertb how smart the FLMs are at the "big" facilities and how skewed certain large facility staffing numbers are! It gives me no pleasure to say things that inevitably lead to groupthink attacks; but that doesnt make it any less true.
 
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CaptainObvious

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728
Facilities still have a collaborated ranking list, so yes it stands to reason that the more highly desired facility the more people ranked on that list and therefore necessarily harder to crack the top. That is NCEPT 101 and speaks for itself. And that list is better than the nothing that there was.

And it's not hate. It's the state of play which is widely known and understood within the agency, but rarely discussed. At least here it can be said without being deleted. Other places will get you excommunicated, physically threatened, and worse.

Most FLMs arent too sharp (especially at the "big" facilities, which seems counterintuitive until you've been there and done that), which is why they're FLMs and not controllers. Ask @Robertb how smart the FLMs are at the "big" facilities and how skewed certain large facility staffing numbers are! It gives me no pleasure to say things that inevitably lead to groupthink attacks; but that doesnt make it any less true.
Thanks for explaining to me, I’m at a big facility so I’m aware how it is
 
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Robertb

Forum Sage
FAA
Messages
477
Facility
A80 Atlanta Tracon
The biggest gripe I have with NCEPT is that it rewards people for being able to be released, but not being qualified. The FAA considers “a body a body,” but there’s a huge difference between a tower only CPC transfer and a large TRACON CPC transfer. They need to “cap” moves to say no more than four levels higher than your current facility. That would eliminate the CSG to ATL or the POU to A80 or the AGS to C90 or whatever. Also, if you don’t have a radar ticket, you can’t transfer to places like: F11, A90, etc. that are stand alone TRACONs.
 

CaptainObvious

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728
The biggest gripe I have with NCEPT is that it rewards people for being able to be released, but not being qualified. The FAA considers “a body a body,” but there’s a huge difference between a tower only CPC transfer and a large TRACON CPC transfer. They need to “cap” moves to say no more than four levels higher than your current facility. That would eliminate the CSG to ATL or the POU to A80 or the AGS to C90 or whatever. Also, if you don’t have a radar ticket, you can’t transfer to places like: F11, A90, etc. that are stand alone TRACONs.
But then again you’re getting into the punishment of employees who didn’t get to choose where they went, and may not be able to leave to get that radar ticket. Or if they are able to get radar experience at a second facility, may not be able to leave that facility
 

Robertb

Forum Sage
FAA
Messages
477
Facility
A80 Atlanta Tracon
But then again you’re getting into the punishment of employees who didn’t get to choose where they went, and may not be able to leave to get that radar ticket. Or if they are able to get radar experience at a second facility, may not be able to leave that facility
It wouldn’t waste our resources and time, at short staffed facilities, training people who shouldn’t be here when more qualified people were available, but not easily released. There is zero reason why a tower only CPC should be able to transfer to a stand alone, high level TRACON. You’re punishing us more, by sending people who aren’t qualified to be here, and won’t be successful. I don’t want to continue working six day work weeks until I’m 56.
 

Soham

Trusted Contributor
Messages
17
A bit off topic, but if your facility's staffing number is too high is there anything you can do about it or can only management and the union rep change it?
 

byoungblood

Member
FAA
Messages
11
Facility
ZME Memphis Center
It wouldn’t waste our resources and time, at short staffed facilities, training people who shouldn’t be here when more qualified people were available, but not easily released. There is zero reason why a tower only CPC should be able to transfer to a stand alone, high level TRACON. You’re punishing us more, by sending people who aren’t qualified to be here, and won’t be successful. I don’t want to continue working six day work weeks until I’m 56.
Or to centers for that matter. Basically have to train them like they’re straight from the academy, draw maps, train on d-sides, train on r-sides. It takes just as long, and aren’t any more successful than a new hire. If anything, they seem to struggle more because they’re used to working at whatever pace they had at a tower and the workload of radar just overwhelms them.

Only benefit I see from the new process is that you have standardized release times. No more of this 2-4 year release junk that some ATMs would pull.
 
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CaptainObvious

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Or to centers for that matter. Basically have to train them like they’re straight from the academy, draw maps, train on d-sides, train on r-sides. It takes just as long, and aren’t any more successful than a new hire. Before NC
I understand the complaints, but why limit people to the track they’re set on. Centers only want center people, if you’re low level tower, radar facilities don’t want you. So you’re at a level 5 tower, that’s all you’re worth? It’s discriminatory

It wouldn’t waste our resources and time, at short staffed facilities, training people who shouldn’t be here when more qualified people were available, but not easily released. There is zero reason why a tower only CPC should be able to transfer to a stand alone, high level TRACON. You’re punishing us more, by sending people who aren’t qualified to be here, and won’t be successful. I don’t want to continue working six day work weeks until I’m 56.
I don’t think wasting resources is the way to go either, but it’s simply fixed by bringing back a screen.
 
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