Ncept is solid program

[Acquired Taste]

In the center environment, NCEPT should be based on the staffing of individual areas as opposed to the staffing of the whole building. If Area 1 is well staffed, the people trying to leave shouldn’t be held hostage because Areas 3,6 &7 are understaffed.

Nah, they should indeed be held hostage. Maybe all the areas get a similar amount of trainees but area 1 is easier and has a much higher success rate than the other areas, resulting in better staffing. Maybe area 3 has a wave of retirements all at once and needs a like 5 trainees but the academy only sent 2 AGs and now area 1 also needs some trainees because they just released a qualified body on NCEPT and now area 3 will be working 60 hour weeks while the area 1 is taking spot leave everyday and letting people leave for greener pastures. Talk about creating some unnecessary animosity in the building...

On the flip side I could see the reverse argument. Let's assume all things are equal. A place like ZAU had like 12 possible releases for a few panels in a row. I'd imagine some areas are probably short. Theoretically, like 10 people from the shortest area could all get released and the people on the NCEPT panel would never know in which case it would make more sense to base the NCEPT off areas.

I think maybe I talked myself into agreeing with you but for that to work, all the PPT numbers would have to be run for individual areas for it to be as fair as possible and some areas will have very low success rate and longer training times and that all needs to be accounted for in the projections. When a new body shows up to the facility, they are assigned the area with the lowest projected staffing with the only exception being if they have a backlog of too many trainees at which point they go to the next lowest projected area. I think that's the only way that it could work and then you'd have those well staffed areas release initially, and then once again be held hostage by the poorly staffed areas until the FAA sends enough new hires to be able to finally send them to train on the areas that released people.

Either way, the only real solution is for the FAA to hire a bunch more people in a hurry so more people can progress their careers and get to where they want to be.

 

[32andBelow]

The other insane thing is there’s no good way to change areas at the center. The bonus you get is a pay cut when you count all the premiums you’ll miss during training.

 

[FredSmoot]

Nah, they should indeed be held hostage. Maybe all the areas get a similar amount of trainees but area 1 is easier and has a much higher success rate than the other areas, resulting in better staffing. Maybe area 3 has a wave of retirements all at once and needs a like 5 trainees but the academy only sent 2 AGs and now area 1 also needs some trainees because they just released a qualified body on NCEPT and now area 3 will be working 60 hour weeks while the area 1 is taking spot leave everyday and letting people leave for greener pastures. Talk about creating some unnecessary animosity in the building...

On the flip side I could see the reverse argument. Let's assume all things are equal. A place like ZAU had like 12 possible releases for a few panels in a row. I'd imagine some areas are probably short. Theoretically, like 10 people from the shortest area could all get released and the people on the NCEPT panel would never know in which case it would make more sense to base the NCEPT off areas.

I think maybe I talked myself into agreeing with you but for that to work, all the PPT numbers would have to be run for individual areas for it to be as fair as possible and some areas will have very low success rate and longer training times and that all needs to be accounted for in the projections. When a new body shows up to the facility, they are assigned the area with the lowest projected staffing with the only exception being if they have a backlog of too many trainees at which point they go to the next lowest projected area. I think that's the only way that it could work and then you'd have those well staffed areas release initially, and then once again be held hostage by the poorly staffed areas until the FAA sends enough new hires to be able to finally send them to train on the areas that released people.

Either way, the only real solution is for the FAA to hire a bunch more people in a hurry so more people can progress their careers and get to where they want to be.

We already had that animosity during Covid when some areas got to stay on 5 on 10 off while others had to go to 5 on 5 off or BWS because their staffing could no longer support 5/10.

 

[boots]

Let’s be honest. Nothing is going to happen. Santa fuck believes the system is great. Keep giving them your dues.

 

[ChuckNovember]

What happens when seven EVV (randomly selected) people wash out in a row and then EVV has no trainees? Too bad for them? That's why they went away from pre-assigning facilities. The facility would be expecting a new body then that person would wash and they would get no one... for months

I think you'd agree that this is statistically very unlikely. In the current system you have people so desperate they're leaving the agency to roll the dice on prior exp bids, supe bid applications are around 400% higher than the 2018 levels, and hardships are becoming the norm. We have a real problem here that needs to be at the very least acknowledged.

ATMs had responsibility for staffing in years past and that’s why we got ncept. They were allowed to release knowing they might not get their list of people assigned to their facility pre academy.


Asking the group, how do you then staff a facility when you can’t get local hires, and the ones you do everyone leaves via whatever release policy exists? When you listed states hardly anyone applied to quite a few states. They couldn’t staff facilities. You’ll see a drastic decrease in applicants on the apply anywhere only ever gets like 20-30 locations.

Every one of your "arguments" here is based on a personal assumption.

If I'm interpreting the posts on here correctly, everyone wants the incoming controllers to have more agency in where they end up because it not only helps that individual, it helps all of us who are currently in the process of training someone with their hardship papers/supe application already saved on their desktop. It will make controllers' lives better, which is supposed to be the point of the labor union.

 

[32andBelow]

Every one of your "arguments" here is based on a personal assumption.

If I'm interpreting the posts on here correctly, everyone wants the incoming controllers to have more agency in where they end up because it not only helps that individual, it helps all of us who are currently in the process of training someone with their hardship papers/supe application already saved on their desktop. It will make controllers' lives better, which is supposed to be the point of the labor union.

It’s funny a lot of the non union controllers or inactive members feel this way and all the active brothers and sisters want to make sure new controllers get punished liked they did

 

[GulfBravoPapa]

I think you'd agree that this is statistically very unlikely. In the current system you have people so desperate they're leaving the agency to roll the dice on prior exp bids, supe bid applications are around 400% higher than the 2018 levels, and hardships are becoming the norm. We have a real problem here that needs to be at the very least acknowledged.

Seven failing in a row? Yes... but more than two in a row going to the same failing is very possible.... leaving said facility with no one.

 

[ChuckNovember]

Seven failing in a row? Yes... but more than two in a row going to the same failing is very possible.... leaving said facility with no one.

thats fair

It’s funny a lot of the non union controllers or inactive members feel this way and all the active brothers and sisters want to make sure new controllers get punished liked they did

Meh. I have had a different experience. Its more like the people who got to pick their states / do some respectable HR flirting to get where they wanted to go can't understand why the youngsters are so angry.

 

[Phillytroll69]

I think you'd agree that this is statistically very unlikely. In the current system you have people so desperate they're leaving the agency to roll the dice on prior exp bids, supe bid applications are around 400% higher than the 2018 levels, and hardships are becoming the norm. We have a real problem here that needs to be at the very least acknowledged.

Sup bids and hardships are the only way to move around lol

The union and faa are making hardships VERY difficult. It's an insane process right now. Even the 50% that are legit now have issues

 

[Dolan]

Sup bids and hardships are the only way to move around lol

The union and faa are making hardships VERY difficult. It's an insane process right now. Even the 50% that are legit now have issues

Good. Thank all the abusers

 

[KiloZulu]

Good. Thank all the abusers

... And not the organization that makes transferring impossible? Maybe if people could get where they wanted to go, they wouldn't be having the same hardship problems that they had with reinstatements.

 

[Move78]

It’s funny a lot of the non union controllers or inactive members feel this way and all the active brothers and sisters want to make sure new controllers get punished liked they did

We’re only 4 days in and we already have April’s worst take.

 

[sillyatc]

We’re only 4 days in and we already have April’s worst take.

Imagine a world where you don't have 32 blocked

 

[doodii]

Imagine a world where you don't have 32 blocked

I don't block people because I love to see the drama. I feel like some folks can't differentiate between ATC being just a job vs. a lifestyle. Thus, the arguments and drama happens and it is lovely to sit back and read the forums here.