32andBelow
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I have 300 hours of sick leave and work 2 hours goes whenever I’m assigned. What are you even talking about.
Shoot The Breeze
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I’m a Boomer that’s complaining about trainees complaining. Do you want me to go into detail?
CaptainObvious
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No thanks. We don’t care
32andBelow
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The things your complaining about aren’t valid that’s the point.
Thousands of current CPC’s went through OKC making 500-1000 a paycheck without COLA for housing. Thousands of current CPC’s had training delays. Thousands of current CPC’s checked out under the white book making a comparable salary to the current D2-D3 pay. It took me 4 years as a CPC to reach full pay. Hell, my level 11 CPC pay under the white book was less than my current trainees D3 pay at a 10. (side note: my trainee busted his ass 6-7 hours a day to get those d-side raises in before the training hold.)
But guess what? We didn’t bitch and moan about it, especially to CPC’s. We didn’t shit on NATCA because our entitlement wasn’t filled. We took our lumps training, we took out shit pay, we took our delays and made the best of it. I guess it’s hard for trainees to understand something so simple as that. I’m sorry for your lost wages.
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PushingTin
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I wouldn’t be so sure if I were you.
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PushingTin
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If I had a dollar for every White Book hire I have heard bitching about lost wages/seniority (those coming back from FLM jobs)/ lack of COLA/ etc... a sizable portion of dollars would be deposited in my bank account each hour, but that is beside the point. It is no longer 2006 but 2020 and the Union has done an excellent job of reminding people of that and the reality that we face an unprecedented crisis. The Union of Johnny "The Bull" Carr is no more and if it were at least most of the membership could respect it and its decisions based on principle, not those whose leaders flip flop at every political opportunity when it suits their needs or the needs of their "perceived" membership.
Now none of us are in a position to judge someone else's life or needs because to put it quite simply, we do not live their life. To hold someone to your supposed "bar" because of what you went through contributes directly to the toxicity experienced by a lot of trainees today. Shit rolls down hill as the saying goes and it is correct to a point but it does not have to be that way. You remind me of the "Old Guard" who would constantly talk down to anyone who certified on post 9/11 traffic because "It was not real traffic" or "the hub days."
Quite a few trainees and CPC-IT's are in this position due to factors outside of our control, whether it be due to staffing/training delays/management ineptness, etc... These all occurred during the Pre-COVID era which have snowballed into today. So before you tell someone to quit bitching keep in mind what we are experiencing is just the icing on the cake culmination of years and years of shit stacking... Eventually something will/has to give way.
I didn't realize there were still adults who've never been to the internet before.
Welcome!
32andBelow
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Why do you think that we don’t train 6 hours a day? We can’t force the faa to run up through a lab in the 6 months before the pandemic when they tell us to just wait your turn.
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PushingTin
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Alright you got me, I’m brown but my sup constantly confuses me for one of the 2 black controllers in my area.
That was well said and I agree with 95% of your points. I’ll stand down with my “old guard” mentality. That was just a kick the door down attempt to bring trainees back to the middle. A little too much sense of entitlement for me I guess, not just on this forum but at the facility.
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I promise you it was not intended as a personal attack, more of a generalised statement. I feel you on the sense of entitlement in today's atmosphere, believe me, I can see where you are coming from, especially observing it first hand. A lot of trainees bust their ass everyday trying to hit that mandate/not a mandate bullshit. When I first started, once the "Old Guard" saw my book knowledge and desire to learn, the amount of stick time that was offered dwarfed any official training requirements. Trust me, the right trainees and people appreciate what you do.
that’s cool . But right now no trainee no matter how hard or badly they want to try can go sit on the floor and beg for training. That’s a direct result of delays caused by their employer and union - and that’s not the same as what you’re describing.
you can see yourself out.
jdatc
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Wait, are we talking about ZDV here? I am confused. Aren't they the first Z back to normal schedules? Side note; I lived in Erie too! Good old county line liquors....
Yeah probably has nothing to do with the pandemic.
the majority of BUEs want their 5/5 or 5/10 which is the primary driver to keeping trainees out of the building.
I understand you
I get it, the current situation sucks for trainees. This isn’t the first roadblock in FAA training history though. ERAM delays, furloughs, shutdowns, poorly run facilities, etc. I made a mistake generalizing all trainees but times have clearly changed. I’ve personally pushed to change the training environment in my facility and I’ll continue to put in work training people who want deserve it. My point about trainees back in the day apparently doesn’t hold water anymore.
I don’t care what a BUE’s prerogative is.
Yes, everyone has failed by not keeping you informed.
They fail when they turn down hazard pay.
And I think it blows that most people won’t wear masks/stay at home when they’re supposed to be there.
But the only thing they’ve done right is keep trainees home, even if their reasons for doing so suck.
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