Sup bid no longer follow ncept rules?

[16gtiguy]

My ATM just told me that the FAA/NATCA just agreed to withdraw supervisor bids from the ncept process. Meaning if you bid a sup job you can trump any errs and get a release from a red facility. Anyone else hear this? If so NATCA has screwed us larger facilities again.

 

[16gtiguy]

Yes but according to my ATM it's no longer a deviation. They removed it completely and are separate with auto approvals and it's up to the ATMs for release date like how it was preNcept

 

[Dontbotherme]

Yes but according to my ATM it's no longer a deviation. They removed it completely and are separate with auto approvals and it's up to the ATMs for release date like how it was preNcept

There’s only a few things in life I’d believe less in than a FAA ATM...

 

[Stinger]

Yes but according to my ATM it's no longer a deviation. They removed it completely and are separate with auto approvals and it's up to the ATMs for release date like how it was preNcept

One of the good things about the Release Policy is that release dates go mostly in the order of selection. I think ATMs should be able to select who they want without having to file a deviation request, but the selectee should still be released after anyone else that has release dates.
So the FAA goes from one extreme (selection and skip the line) to the other (no selection/denied deviation) and then right back to the way it was? Sounds about right, and I have no idea if it's true or anything worthwhile to add.

 

[16gtiguy]

There’s only a few things in life I’d believe less in than a FAA ATM...

While I concur he knows I have been trying to get outta here for years, I asked my facrep who is barely more credible than my ATM but he says it's true. Asked for it in writing and it's "in the mail"

 

[Dontbotherme]

While I concur he knows I have been trying to get outta here for years, I asked my facrep who is barely more credible than my ATM but he says it's true. Asked for it in writing and it's "in the mail"

I haven’t heard anything about that changing, but I’ll ask when I go back on Friday. I find it hard to believe the union would support it. Most likely, the agency said they were going to do it and the union doesn’t want to step on their toes for whatever collaborative reason.

 

[James]

Any update on any of this?

 

[breakaway2000]

Typically any change to the NCEPT process is discussed and implemented during an NCEPT meeting. There was no mention of it during the minutes, however, I believe it is accurate based on the most recent deviation list. There are no FLM, Support specialist, TMC, etc. on it, simply controllers. See below. Given that there are no staff support specialist or TMC positions, until I see it officially in writing, it appears all MPP bids are exempt.

Approved:
1. ADS to DAL. Deviation is to extend release date from 5/1/18 to 8/9/18.
ADS is Auth 2 FLMs, with 1 AOB. The 1 FLM transfers to HOU 5/27/2018.
ADS is Auth 11 CPCs, with 10 AOB. 2 Trainees: 1 AG; 1 PE.DAL is Auth 24 CPCs, with 21 AOB. 3 Trainees: 1 CPCIT0; 1 CPCIT1; 1 CPCIT2.
Deviation was approved to extend release date to DAL by 3 months, so selectee, who is OJTI and CIC certified, can support training and oversight through the summer.

Disapproved:
1. ARR to DWH. Deviation was to extend release date from 5/27/18 to 2/17/19.
2. CAK to MOB. Deviation was to extend release date from 5/27/18 to 3/3/19.
3. CAK to MDW. Deviation was to extend release date from 3/3/19 to 6/2/19.
4. FAI to ANC. Deviation was to extend release date from 3/3/19 to 10/27/19.
5. NEW to CRP. Deviation was to extend release date from 3/3/19 to 9/1/19.
6. PNS to P31. Deviation was to extend release date from 5/27/18 to 9/19/18.

7. PNS to RDU. Deviation was to extend release date from 5/27/18 to 9/19/18.

8. NEW to BHM. Deviation is to extend release date from 5/27/18 to 3/3/19.

 

[Move78]

Typically any change to the NCEPT process is discussed and implemented during an NCEPT meeting. There was no mention of it during the minutes, however, I believe it is accurate based on the most recent deviation list. There are no FLM, Support specialist, TMC, etc. on it, simply controllers. See below. Given that there are no staff support specialist or TMC positions, until I see it officially in writing, it appears all MPP bids are exempt.

Approved:
1. ADS to DAL. Deviation is to extend release date from 5/1/18 to 8/9/18.
ADS is Auth 2 FLMs, with 1 AOB. The 1 FLM transfers to HOU 5/27/2018.
ADS is Auth 11 CPCs, with 10 AOB. 2 Trainees: 1 AG; 1 PE.DAL is Auth 24 CPCs, with 21 AOB. 3 Trainees: 1 CPCIT0; 1 CPCIT1; 1 CPCIT2.
Deviation was approved to extend release date to DAL by 3 months, so selectee, who is OJTI and CIC certified, can support training and oversight through the summer.

Disapproved:
1. ARR to DWH. Deviation was to extend release date from 5/27/18 to 2/17/19.
2. CAK to MOB. Deviation was to extend release date from 5/27/18 to 3/3/19.
3. CAK to MDW. Deviation was to extend release date from 3/3/19 to 6/2/19.
4. FAI to ANC. Deviation was to extend release date from 3/3/19 to 10/27/19.
5. NEW to CRP. Deviation was to extend release date from 3/3/19 to 9/1/19.
6. PNS to P31. Deviation was to extend release date from 5/27/18 to 9/19/18.

7. PNS to RDU. Deviation was to extend release date from 5/27/18 to 9/19/18.

8. NEW to BHM. Deviation is to extend release date from 5/27/18 to 3/3/19.

Is this going to lead to an influx in FLM competition due to a wave of applicants from forever red facilities? And therefore it'll make those facilities redder? And possibly a decrease in FLM PCS if there's increased interest in sup bids in general. Seems like now you could bid a sup job for a year at facility X then go back to controller and ERR anywhere. This line of thinking make sense?

 

[ajmezz]

Yeah, I don't see this going well. People are already bidding flm jobs as a way of trying to get out of facilities, if it's basically a for sure thing, people will never be able to err out of low level facilities as long as folks are willing to take an flm spot in a desirable place for them.

 

[16gtiguy]

Is this going to lead to an influx in FLM competition due to a wave of applicants from forever red facilities? And therefore it'll make those facilities redder? And possibly a decrease in FLM PCS if there's increased interest in sup bids in general. Seems like now you could bid a sup job for a year at facility X then go back to controller and ERR anywhere. This line of thinking make sense?

Thats exactly what i fear is going to happen, there are at lead 15 people at my facility that are desperate to get out, and would be willing to do this, so my chances of getting an ERR just went from remote to impossible.

 

[Move78]

Thats exactly what i fear is going to happen, there are at lead 15 people at my facility that are desperate to get out, and would be willing to do this, so my chances of getting an ERR just went from remote to impossible.

This has not been confirmed yet and I've heard more credible people say it's untrue than those that have said it's true.

 

[DankVectorz]

I haven’t heard anything about that changing, but I’ll ask when I go back on Friday. I find it hard to believe the union would support it. Most likely, the agency said they were going to do it and the union doesn’t want to step on their toes for whatever collaborative reason.

It probably is true because denying someone a promotion they're selected for due to staffing is illegal.

 

[Dolan]

Thats exactly what i fear is going to happen, there are at lead 15 people at my facility that are desperate to get out, and would be willing to do this, so my chances of getting an ERR just went from remote to impossible.

Dang, 15 that are desperate? What percentage of your total cpcs is that?

 

[breakaway2000]

This may have been premature. They split the deviation up into two cycles. NCEPT deviations and everything else (FLM, TMC, SP, etc). They just had a round that included everything else.

 

[Stinger]

It probably is true because denying someone a promotion they're selected for due to staffing is illegal.

I don't know if that's true because of all the people that get denied a release. Not sure if it factors in, but FAA is exempt from huge portions of US Code Title 5.

 

[rhombus]

Asking for a member. If you're given a TOL for an FLM position does that already mean the deviation has been approved and then the ATMs just figure out a release date? Or does the deviation request come after the TOL is accepted?

 

[Stinger]

Asking for a member. If you're given a TOL for an FLM position does that already mean the deviation has been approved and then the ATMs just figure out a release date? Or does the deviation request come after the TOL is accepted?

You'll get the TOL after the deviation has already been approved.

 

[16gtiguy]

Dang, 15 that are desperate? What percentage of your total cpcs is that?

We have 65 now I think, slotted for 84. I would say at least 25 people have err’s in and at least 2 hardships that I know of.

 

[Dontbotherme]

The agency just pulled three sup bodies here (one permanent from TMU staffing, one permanent from CPC staffing, and one temporary from CPC staffing). Why isn’t the union fighting this issue? I thought the entire point of the NCEPT staffing MOU was to tie releases down to CPC staffing. So that’s three less CPCs than we had last week. So we are back to less than 70% staffing...