The upcoming stacked leave apocalypse

[Flashy Vectors]

This thread turned into a total ? show

 

[mnsalty]

sorry. That is pretty lame. I get it, you want to train and all and there may be a reasonable session worth training occasionally out there, but don’t bullshit. It doesn’t further your cause.

training has never been and should never be predicated on the presence if traffic. When will be enough traffic ? 2030?

Just admit you were wrong and move on from it. It makes you a better trainee and a person.

Here we go again with the “holier than thou” crap.

 

[mnsalty]

....and you guys are going back to normal schedules. ZDV Is the epitome of success.


What will TMU have to do there when they don’t have to radio down that the sector is going red anymore? mnsalty, they will be the first to be furloughed.

I don’t know much about TMU being at my level 4 tower or whatever y’all decided- but it stands to reason if we “don’t have traffic to train” then we probably don’t need TMU in the building either.

 

[Acquired Taste]

No, i don’t think taxes are evil

So why try to minimize your tax liability? Pay your fair share bro!

 

[twn]

I don’t know much about TMU being at my level 4 tower or whatever y’all decided- but it stands to reason if we “don’t have traffic to train” then we probably don’t need TMU in the building either.

Level 4 vfr tower for sure ?

 

[PushingTin]

I don’t know much about TMU being at my level 4 tower or whatever y’all decided- but it stands to reason if we “don’t have traffic to train” then we probably don’t need TMU in the building either.

i would rather hold the $5 Hot N Ready little Caesars pizza spinner signs in 100 degree heat or be reincarnated as a pair of Amy Schumer's spanx than transfer to TMU ?

 

[DankVectorz]

training has never been and should never be predicated in the presence if traffic.

lol what?

 

[mnsalty]

lol what?

I assume you’ve been around a while. did training stop after 9/11? The next day maybe not.... but within a month?

 

[DankVectorz]

I assume you’ve been around a while. did training stop after 9/11? The next day maybe not.... but within a month?

I was in high school on 9/11.

I do know that at my Air Force base, which was an F-22 base, that when the F-22’s got grounded for 6 months and they still decided to go ahead and train and certify people during that time, that it lead to the squadron commander calling and saying next time just give them the frequency and they’ll sort it out themselves.

But I digress. Lack of traffic in non-deadly pandemic times obviously doesn’t mean trainees don’t show up, but they sure as shit don’t (or shouldn’t be) training when there’s no traffic to train on. It does everyone, especially the trainee, a disservice because you’re just eating your hours up not learning dick.

 

[jdatc]

This was the count over 4th of July weekend. Take the numbers how you want, it’s all a matter of perception. Traffic count isn’t anything to write home about in my opinion. Working combined sectors and it being “red” sectors is why people probably feel it’s busy. And reduced crews creating more TOP is another factor. The think it gives perspective on how easy we actually had it to begin with.

training has never been and should never be predicated in the presence if traffic. When will be enough traffic ? 2030?


Here we go again with the “holier than thou” crap.

Nope. Facts are facts. But you don’t get it. It’s ok.

Also, training plans do discuss traffic. Like what you will be expected to train on for traffic starting out, or goals, things like moderate or better may be included.
Or even how we might do your fist 10 hours with light traffic to get familiarity. maybe runway configurations we want to see, maybe something about holding and shut offs even.

Some of us actually have been trainers for a while here believe it or not. Maybe we even taught some of the courses or even rewrote training orders.

 

[mnsalty]

Nope. Facts are facts. But you don’t get it. It’s ok.

Also, training plans do discuss traffic. Like what you will be expected to train on for traffic starting out, or goals, things like moderate or better may be included.
Or even how we might do your fist 10 hours with light traffic to get familiarity. maybe runway configurations we want to see, maybe something about holding and shut offs even.

Some of us actually have been trainers for a while here believe it or not. Maybe we even taught some of the courses or even rewrote training orders.

all im hearing is “this is how we’ve done it for years and we aren’t changing”

 

[DankVectorz]

all im hearing is “this is how we’ve done it for years and we aren’t changing”

dude how long have you been an ATC trainee for? Is your level 4 tower your first atc facility?

 

[jdatc]

all im hearing is “this is how we’ve done it for years and we aren’t changing”

Because that’s what you want to hear. Things will have to change. I don’t know how they will, but they will and we will soldier on. Whether it be more intense use of simulation, or whatever I don’t know.

All I do know is that we are in the infancy of this and everyone expects answers like right now. Well, welcome to the FAA, it’s not your way right away that is for sure. So there will be some suffering, and I feel for some of you.

Believe it or not a lot of us have got screwed somehow along the way, and that doesn’t make it right for you to get screwed also, however it does make some of us tone deaf to it. Sorry.

 

[PushingTin]

all im hearing is “this is how we’ve done it for years and we aren’t changing”

It will all be fixed in 119 little days! Your halfway there hang in there kid. All that Salt corroding your outlook

 

[Horny4Vectors]

all im hearing is “this is how we’ve done it for years and we aren’t changing”

Maybe you’ll be the one to make the difference! Swing hard and for the fences, big guy!

 

[GulfBravoPapa]

I don’t know much about TMU being at my level 4 tower or whatever y’all decided- but it stands to reason if we “don’t have traffic to train” then we probably don’t need TMU in the building either.

What about when the thunderstorms roll through and someone needs to set up route swaps and coordinate runway changes etc...

 

[Horny4Vectors]

I don’t know much about TMU

What about when the thunderstorms roll through and someone needs to set up route swaps and coordinate runway changes etc...

You’re throwing fast balls at a kid with no glove.

 

[mnsalty]

I was in high school on 9/11.

I do know that at my Air Force base, which was an F-22 base, that when the F-22’s got grounded for 6 months and they still decided to go ahead and train and certify people during that time, that it lead to the squadron commander calling and saying next time just give them the frequency and they’ll sort it out themselves.

But I digress. Lack of traffic in non-deadly pandemic times obviously doesn’t mean trainees don’t show up, but they sure as shit don’t (or shouldn’t be) training when there’s no traffic to train on. It does everyone, especially the trainee, a disservice because you’re just eating your hours up not learning dick.

dear n90 god (not sarcasm at all btw),

I wholeheartedly agree with you. The difference is all the traffic isn’t coming back overnight like those F22s did. But maybe it’s the same with F22s I dunno never worked them myself especially at my level 4 tower

 

[mnsalty]

You’re throwing fast balls at a kid with no glove.

It’s allowed because “that’s how we did it back in the day”

 

[Horny4Vectors]

It’s allowed because “that’s how we did it back in the day”