Town Hall

[Stinger]

This week was a town hall meeting, watched most of it. Jeffrey Vincent, the VP of Air Traffic Services received a question about ncept. Things he mentioned:
We are constantly making changes to the process,
Training is the main focus,
In the first two years of ncept, their was 1500-2000 moves,
Average training time was 8.7 hours per week,
It's going to take a while to get 2000 people certified when they only get 8.7 hours a week,
It's a balance and we make tweaks when necessary,
Currently if a facility is above 85% they can release, and below 85% they can select,
It's a simple math problem "as you get people certified at your facility, you can move",
Those "that are moving at will are moving at will because their facility is above 85% and their rates of certification is outpacing their rates of attrition "
Our goal is to have the entire country sitting around 85-86%, and then people can move around at will.

 

[Roger_Roger]

This week was a town hall meeting, watched most of it. Jeffrey Vincent, the VP of Air Traffic Services received a question about ncept. Things he mentioned:
We are constantly making changes to the process,
Training is the main focus,
In the first two years of ncept, their was 1500-2000 moves,
Average training time was 8.7 hours per week,
It's going to take a while to get 2000 people certified when they only get 8.7 hours a week,
It's a balance and we make tweaks when necessary,
Currently if a facility is above 85% they can release, and below 85% they can select,
It's a simple math problem "as you get people certified at your facility, you can move",
Those "that are moving at will are moving at will because their facility is above 85% and their rates of certification is outpacing their rates of attrition "
Our goal is to have the entire country sitting around 85-86%, and then people can move around at will.

Yeah because n90 will ever be staffed to 85% ?

 

[Flyaboveall]

This week was a town hall meeting, watched most of it. Jeffrey Vincent, the VP of Air Traffic Services received a question about ncept. Things he mentioned:
We are constantly making changes to the process,
Training is the main focus,
In the first two years of ncept, their was 1500-2000 moves,
Average training time was 8.7 hours per week,
It's going to take a while to get 2000 people certified when they only get 8.7 hours a week,
It's a balance and we make tweaks when necessary,
Currently if a facility is above 85% they can release, and below 85% they can select,
It's a simple math problem "as you get people certified at your facility, you can move",
Those "that are moving at will are moving at will because their facility is above 85% and their rates of certification is outpacing their rates of attrition "
Our goal is to have the entire country sitting around 85-86%, and then people can move around at will.

Your opinion, how much longer you think for all facilities to be 85%? Are we including N90, C90, ZNY in this?

 

[GulfBravoPapa]

This week was a town hall meeting, watched most of it. Jeffrey Vincent, the VP of Air Traffic Services received a question about ncept. Things he mentioned:
We are constantly making changes to the process,
Training is the main focus,
In the first two years of ncept, their was 1500-2000 moves,
Average training time was 8.7 hours per week,
It's going to take a while to get 2000 people certified when they only get 8.7 hours a week,
It's a balance and we make tweaks when necessary,
Currently if a facility is above 85% they can release, and below 85% they can select,
It's a simple math problem "as you get people certified at your facility, you can move",
Those "that are moving at will are moving at will because their facility is above 85% and their rates of certification is outpacing their rates of attrition "
Our goal is to have the entire country sitting around 85-86%, and then people can move around at will.

Lol so this is where the very poorly worded memo on Reddit comes from. The new priority in the FAA: 1. Training 2. Safety 3. Professionalism... You can't make this stuff up...

 

[Stinger]

Lol so this is where the very poorly worded memo on Reddit comes from. The new priority in the FAA: 1. Training 2. Safety 3. Professionalism... You can't make this stuff up...

Yeah... The memo was probably put out by an ATM after watching it. The ABCs are Acumen, Basics, and Communication. The Strategic Priorities are Training, Safety, and Professionalism.

Your opinion, how much longer you think for all facilities to be 85%? Are we including N90, C90, ZNY in this?

I don't think ever along the current path. But with some changes I think it could be there within 4-5 years.
Leaving out N90 and ZNY. C90 I think will reach it.
There's 18 facilities that are projected below 85%.
There's 156 that are below 85% currently.

 

[ATC_av8er]

Our goal is to have the entire country sitting around 85-86%, and then people can move around at will.

Then start hiring more controllers.

 

[Jellismate]

Then start hiring more controllers.

"We dont have a staffing problem. We have a training problem"

 

[ManBearPig]

We have been constantly training. Our trainees were getting 12+ hours per week before the training mandate. The problem isn't training, it's the piss poor trainees we had been sent recently. Also, when we do certify someone, they immediately talk about putting paperwork in somewhere. Now I have to compete against that individual to get out, after busting my ass training them.

 

[jdatc]

Now I have to compete against that individual to get out, after busting my ass training them.

meh. I have shared my ERR package before with my trainee and we both got out just as he hit CPC.

No one owes anyone anything for training them, sorry, and I say this as a current trainer.

However I do tell my trainees it’s not worth the $9 an hour I get paid to train them. But, alas, it is in our job duties. Such is life.

 

[FightingIrish2012]

Now I have to compete against that individual to get out, after busting my ass training them.

I see you point and I think this is where the system will finally collapse. Lots of people (OJTIs) have been mentioning on here and to myself and others that the training initiative is making them hate the job and burning them out, “but I’ll do it as it’s my only way to get out of here”. I think the vast majority of these people will get leapfrogged by the 4 month CPC they just trained time and time again until it breaks them. Reasoning is the people I described probably don’t want to go to consistent top 30 PPT places, if they did there is a fair chance they would have done so by now. New certificates want to go to big markets and people who just want to chase big money will indefinitely be sniping hiring priority facilities over them.

And while I am firmly against automatically being a servant to your trainer the rest of your life (especially if they sucked), don’t let that guy who first responded to you tell you that a trainee owes absolutely zero or gratitude to his trainers starting the day they certify. That guy makes $90 a hour and is probably at a center in his hometown, he probably never knew the meaning of wanting to move or being stuck.

 

[KingPong12]

Hypothetically speaking: if every controller in the FAA was CPC today and dispersed evenly to every facility, would the NAS be staffed to the 85%?

That’s a question for all you math whizzes

 

[penaltyvectors]

Hypothetically speaking: if every controller in the FAA was CPC today and dispersed evenly to every facility, would the NAS be staffed to the 85%?

That’s a question for all you math whizzes

This is pretty readily available in the PPT. If I'm reading it correctly, it seems like national CPC to target is at 82.3% right now. If every trainee were to CPC today, that number would be 109%. I'm too lazy to factor in retirements, training failures, etc. but that 82.3% number is a lot closer to 85% than I would have guessed.

 

[jdatc]

That guy makes $90 a hour and is probably at a center in his hometown, he probably never knew the meaning of wanting to move or being stuck.

:::raises hand:::

Spent 11 years at a center I didn’t want to be at till I got lucky and got out on an ERR. Pre NCEPT wasn’t much movement out of there either, now none though. Money was good at least.

Still not where I desire to be, but I hate everywhere I work. I just wish more people hated me. I need to try harder.

 

[DankVectorz]

So basically I’m never leaving. Looks like I’ll be retiring the day I hit 50. Nothing to do with N90, but I’m not staying on this shithole island 1 hour longer than I have to.

 

[Shikaka]

I just wish more people hated me. I need to try harder.

My new years resolution was to stop being passive aggressive and more just aggressive...I shoulder checked every cub scout in the tour that came through yesterday...

 

[Electricfence]

13,012 is the current CPC Target. 10,903 current CPCS+3,335 in training- 1,537pending retirements=12,701/13,012=97.6 percent. Of the 3,335 according to historic data its assumed only 2,524 will certify. Using that math that's puts us at 11,890/13012=91.3 percent. Many of the trainees who wont make it are probably previous CPCs somewhere, and obviously not all eligible to retire will retire within the projected period. this is why the line we have a training problem not a staffing problem is being used because the numbers indicate that we are in a lot better circumstances than some claim. Currently according to the PPT, 290 facilities are projected to be above 85% within the projected period that's assuming wash outs and retirements.

 

[jdatc]

So basically I’m never leaving. Looks like I’ll be retiring the day I hit 50. Nothing to do with N90, but I’m not staying on this shithole island 1 hour longer than I have to.

The rumor I heard recently was they were breaking up N90 and farming it out to PHL / ZNY / ZBW. So your area will definitely go to ZNY then.

 

[DankVectorz]

The rumor I heard recently was they were breaking up N90 and farming it out to PHL / ZNY / ZBW. So your area will definitely go to ZNY then.

no that’s already been shot down. And my area was “slated” for PHL.

 

[GulfBravoPapa]

So basically I’m never leaving. Looks like I’ll be retiring the day I hit 50. Nothing to do with N90, but I’m not staying on this shithole island 1 hour longer than I have to.

I'm legitimately curious, how did you end up at N90?

 

[Phillyman2633]

no that’s already been shot down. And my area was “slated” for PHL.

They already decided against that? Are they gonna give everyone in the building a Starbucks gift card so you dont have to drink lead coffee any more?