Town Hall

[Stinger]

do you have access to actual hardships numbers? Withdraw numbers? Termination numbers? Reassignment numbers?

Tomorrow I'll get hardship numbers from the last couple years.
Withdraws/terminations have gone up because of the number of people that have been assigned FSS and then withdraw.

 

[Electricfence]

Tomorrow I'll get hardship numbers from the last couple years.
Withdraws/terminations have gone up because of the number of people that have been assigned FSS and then withdraw.

The workforce plan only speaks to controller losses. , in many ways retirements, transfers to staff support or promotions. Last year it says losses while a developmental (terminations, death, resignation) was only 91. I don’t think going to FSS then quitting is that, isn’t it just losses to fss which makes them not a controller be the issue? That doesn’t seem like a lot to me. But I’d have to look at previous CWPs to see the trend. I’m very curious about hardships. I’d really like to see how many of the current developmental are previous cpc. What that success rate is like?

 

[semperfly]

I'm sure some people will crucify me for this but the most of the hardship transfers I've seen are total horse shit. Similar to how many people have emotional support dogs now that PTSD is a fashion statement. From what you guys are saying, sounds like back in the day people just waited to transfer legitimately rather than looking for sheisty loopholes that allow them to cut in line.

 

[Stinger]

Since October 2015, there's been 398 hardships into terminal facilities and 98 hardships into enroute facilities. Total is 496.
Since July 2015, 715 NEST placements into terminal facilities and 77 NEST placements into enroute facilities. Total is 792.

 

[Electricfence]

Since October 2015, there's been 398 hardships into terminal facilities and 98 hardships into enroute facilities. Total is 496.
Since July 2015, 715 NEST placements into terminal facilities and 77 NEST placements into enroute facilities. Total is 792.

Thanks for the info. Any info prior to ncept to compare if hardships are actually trending up? What about terminations via the Nest?

we have to assume all 77nest placements to en route were previous cpc. AndI’m curious how many of the 715 terminal placements were previous cpc.

 

[Stinger]

Thanks for the info. Any info prior to ncept to compare if hardships are actually trending up? What about terminations via the Nest?

we have to assume all 77nest placements to en route were previous cpc. AndI’m curious how many of the 715 terminal placements were previous cpc.

I used to have access to all the NEST information including each person's document package, but they locked that down in early 2016 I think and I didn't think to save anything then.
I probably have a majority of the NEST meeting minutes starting in 2017, but don't really want to go through each one individually and make a spreadsheet. If someone was inclined, that should be information that would be available via FOIA (or perhaps the NEST group would be able to give it out since ATO shares pretty freely with other ATO bodies.)

 

[GulfCharlie]

I used to have access to all the NEST information i

I remember those days... made for some interesting reads for sure.

 

[corn4ahead]

I'm sure some people will crucify me for this but the most of the hardship transfers I've seen are total horse shit. Similar to how many people have emotional support dogs now that PTSD is a fashion statement. From what you guys are saying, sounds like back in the day people just waited to transfer legitimately rather than looking for sheisty loopholes that allow them to cut in line.

Do what you got to do to advance your career.

 

[DankVectorz]

From what you guys are saying, sounds like back in the day people just waited to transfer legitimately rather than looking for sheisty loopholes that allow them to cut in line.

well yeah no shit that’s cause “back in the day” as in a whole 3-4 years ago there was a legitimate way to transfer. Sure you may get a 2 year release date, but you had a chance to move around. NCEPT leaves hardship as the ONLY way to move around for the majority of the work force.

 

[Super Salt]

Trade one scam for another, it’s all the same. People have and will do whatever is in their best interest. Play the NEST, play the NCEPT, play the hardship, play the supervisor/management bids, or play the reinstatement route. If the results are to you and your family’s benefit, then go for it. Because I have and will continue to do the same.

 

[Shikaka]

I'll say that's the biggest perk to being OTS, not much invested into this career but the FAA gave me a good entry into the Fed and if it gets to that point I can make just as good of benefits in GSA or some other alphabet agency using my previous work experience. ATC isn't the only job out there.

 

[Electricfence]

I used to have access to all the NEST information including each person's document package, but they locked that down in early 2016 I think and I didn't think to save anything then.
I probably have a majority of the NEST meeting minutes starting in 2017, but don't really want to go through each one individually and make a spreadsheet. If someone was inclined, that should be information that would be available via FOIA (or perhaps the NEST group would be able to give it out since ATO shares pretty freely with other ATO bodies.)

Hardships?

 

[Move78]

well yeah no shit that’s cause “back in the day” as in a whole 3-4 years ago there was a legitimate way to transfer. Sure you may get a 2 year release date, but you had a chance to move around. NCEPT leaves hardship as the ONLY way to move around for the majority of the work force.

Transfers are way up. Your issue is with the National Release Policy MOU which basically says if you work at N90 you can never leave.

 

[Stinger]

Hardships?

what about them?

 

[Electricfence]

I believe it was you who said they were trending upwards, you gave some stats from 2015, around the time of the ncept, I then asked do you have stats from prior that to compare?
So are hardships really climbing?

 

[Stinger]

I believe it was you who said they were trending upwards, you gave some stats from 2015, around the time of the ncept, I then asked do you have stats from prior that to compare?
So are hardships really climbing?

Using hardships into terminals...53 in 2016. 97 in 2017. 105 in 2018. 124 in 2019.
So yes. Hardships are climbing.
Oh....18 hardships from July-December 2015.

 

[DankVectorz]

Stinger are the number of ERR’s up since the MOU? Aren’t there only like 11 facilities that can release people right now other than to certain places?

 

[Stinger]

Stinger are the number of ERR’s up since the MOU? Aren’t there only like 11 facilities that can release people right now other than to certain places?

ERRs and transfers are up, but I don't have numbers from before NCEPT.
New-hire placement is the main issue. Nationwide placement possibility at the Academy with no geographic regions taken into account. Until that process is fixed, there will be no shortage of people wanting to transfer.

 

[bravoindia]

ERRs and transfers are up, but I don't have numbers from before NCEPT.
New-hire placement is the main issue. Nationwide placement possibility at the Academy with no geographic regions taken into account. Until that process is fixed, there will be no shortage of people wanting to transfer.

The only logical way to do it is never take into account an employees past exp (ex military, contract tower, etc) and definitely look at the area they reside in currently and then do the opposite. New hire A worked at a VFR tower in PA, well it looks like Oakland Center is the place for you based off of your ATSA score and your gender and color since we use the shit we say we’ll never use and leave out the important shit. What a F***** scam.

 

[Phillyman2633]

well yeah no shit that’s cause “back in the day” as in a whole 3-4 years ago there was a legitimate way to transfer. Sure you may get a 2 year release date, but you had a chance to move around. NCEPT leaves hardship as the ONLY way to move around for the majority of the work force.

Bro if you want I can adopt you as my adult manchild with advanced mental deterioration due to lead poisoning, you can hardship off this shithole island to be closer to your daddy Phillyman.