TRACON track for new hires

[SporadicVectors]

Does anyone know the situation for the new hire TRACON track? Asked my rep what my track was and the response was Basic (RTF), TSEW and TETRA? Thought it would be Basics, RTF, TSEW then TETRA.

 

[MJ]

Does anyone know the situation for the new hire TRACON track? Asked my rep what my track was and the response was Basic (RTF), TSEW and TETRA? Thought it would be Basics, RTF, TSEW then TETRA.

https://pointsixtyfive.com/files/misc/NY_Tracon_Transfer_Procedures.pdf

 

[NEatc933]

Does anyone know the situation for the new hire TRACON track? Asked my rep what my track was and the response was Basic (RTF), TSEW and TETRA? Thought it would be Basics, RTF, TSEW then TETRA.

It's been posted multiple times already, and it's exactly what you wrote:

Basics-Pass/Fail- basically an intro to aviation class. learn about planes, weight categories, basic ATC rules, go over the .65 etc.
RTF-Pass/Pass- Basic radar theory and rules. learn how to vector and use speed control etc.
TSEW-Pass/Pass- Learn how to handle a higher volume of traffic and be more sectorized ie. feeders and final
TETRA-Pass/Fail- N90 specific class? not really sure

 

[SporadicVectors]

It's been posted multiple times already, and it's exactly what you wrote:

Basics-Pass/Fail- basically an intro to aviation class. learn about planes, weight categories, basic ATC rules, go over the .65 etc.
RTF-Pass/Pass- Basic radar theory and rules. learn how to vector and use speed control etc.
TSEW-Pass/Pass- Learn how to handle a higher volume of traffic and be more sectorized ie. feeders and final
TETRA-Pass/Fail- N90 specific class? not really sure

Thanks. Yeah I figured this was correct but the grey area is what happens with TETRA? If one does not pass TETRA, are they going to just get the boot and that’s it?

 

[NEatc933]

Thanks. Yeah I figured this was correct but the grey area is what happens with TETRA? If one does not pass TETRA, are they going to just get the boot and that’s it?

That is the unknown part of this new hiring process. If you read the document @MJ posted for you, you'd see that it says "Unless specifically hired for N90, there may be limited circumstances in which an unsuccessful TETRA new hire (Track 1 or Track 2) could be offered a facility assignment other than N90"

 

[SporadicVectors]

That is the unknown part of this new hiring process. If you read the document @MJ posted for you, you'd see that it says "Unless specifically hired for N90, there may be limited circumstances in which an unsuccessful TETRA new hire (Track 1 or Track 2) could be offered a facility assignment other than N90"

Correct but if that were the case, wouldn’t it make TRACON an easier track being that RTF and TSEW are Pass/Pass? Also, how would they determine if you’re a TETRA failure who is still good enough to get a lower facility assignment?

 

[NEatc933]

Correct but if that were the case, wouldn’t it make TRACON an easier track being that RTF and TSEW are Pass/Pass? Also, how would they determine if you’re a TETRA failure who is still good enough to get a lower facility assignment?

Again this is all new and unknown. I'm not an academy instructor nor am I part of the hiring process. You are going to have to wait for an All source bid person that has been redirected to this new track to go through the process and hopefully write about it on here. Or maybe someone will be able to find some answers within the next few weeks to months. I'm also curious how this is going to play out because I have a friend from home (NY/NJ area) that is just waiting for his medical from this bid and his hr POC said he may get redirected to this.

 

[GulfBravoPapa]

Correct but if that were the case, wouldn’t it make TRACON an easier track being that RTF and TSEW are Pass/Pass? Also, how would they determine if you’re a TETRA failure who is still good enough to get a lower facility assignment?

TETRA is not N90 specific... It luterlite stands for Ten, Eleven, Twelve radar assessment. If you fail TETRA you could in theory go to a level 9 tracon

 

[Stinger]

TETRA is not N90 specific... It luterlite stands for Ten, Eleven, Twelve radar assessment. If you fail TETRA you could in theory go to a level 9 tracon

After all the effort the FAA just spent getting all their new-hire ATC classes onto a cumulative graded process, I seriously doubt they'd retain TETRA failures for lower level tracons except in some special circumstance I don't know of. But maybe they think it's worth it to have people fail TETRA on purpose as long as they can still get some people to go to N90 from their classes.
A11, JCF, M03, P31, P80, R90, T75, U90, Y90, (and maybe ZSU and ZUA) are all the standalone tracons that are level 9 and below. I can easily see people going to any of those facilities so they won't have to take N90.

 

[MJ]

After all the effort the FAA just spent getting all their new-hire ATC classes onto a cumulative graded process, I seriously doubt they'd retain TETRA failures for lower level tracons except in some special circumstance I don't know of. But maybe they think it's worth it to have people fail TETRA on purpose as long as they can still get some people to go to N90 from their classes.
A11, JCF, M03, P31, P80, R90, T75, U90, Y90, (and maybe ZSU and ZUA) are all the standalone tracons that are level 9 and below. I can easily see people going to any of those facilities so they won't have to take N90.

Take out tetra and it’s just the old tracon track without the ability to fail RTF. My guess, which is complete speculation, is that RTF will still be graded and used as a metric to determine retainability.

 

[Stinger]

Take out tetra and it’s just the old tracon track without the ability to fail RTF. My guess, which is complete speculation, is that RTF will still be graded and used as a metric to determine retainability.

RTF hasn't been graded for about a year now. The current terminal QA people at the Academy is an entirely new group of people compared to when RTF was doing graded PAs. The previous group have all either taken different jobs or retired. The current group does the tower PAs, but isn't grader-certified for RTF.
I don't know who's doing the TETRA evals, but I thought it had to be FAA employees conducting graded runs. So either TETRA is hiring their own people to do evals, or the QA group needs to get certified to grade RTF.

 

[GulfBravoPapa]

Take out tetra and it’s just the old tracon track without the ability to fail RTF. My guess, which is complete speculation, is that RTF will still be graded and used as a metric to determine retainability.

I went to RTF 9 years ago and it was pass/pass

 

[Stinger]

I went to RTF 9 years ago and it was pass/pass

And it was graded from 2014/15 into early 2017.

 

[GulfBravoPapa]

And it was graded from 2014/15 into early 2017.

Ahhhh thanks

 

[MJ]

RTF hasn't been graded for about a year now. The current terminal QA people at the Academy is an entirely new group of people compared to when RTF was doing graded PAs. The previous group have all either taken different jobs or retired. The current group does the tower PAs, but isn't grader-certified for RTF.
I don't know who's doing the TETRA evals, but I thought it had to be FAA employees conducting graded runs. So either TETRA is hiring their own people to do evals, or the QA group needs to get certified to grade RTF.

Doesn't that coincide with not sending new hires into the tracon track?

Last month when they were pushing N90 onto the prev exp applicants, one of the selling points was that TETRA failure wouldn't lead to termination, so there has to be some procedure for reassigning people. Start snooping around at work! 🙂

 

[DankVectorz]

Ahhhh thanks

I went through in 2014 and it was pass/pass. They graded stuff but it was just so you could see how you did. They didn't have any new hire RTF classes after me because they stopped sending new hires to stand alone Tracons until within the last couple bids. From end of 14 til I think 2017 the only people in rtf were from up/downs.

 

[MJ]

I went through in 2014 and it was pass/pass. They graded stuff but it was just so you could see how you did.

Yeah, even when there wasn't job jeopardy (CPCs at RTF) there were still evals which were graded. I think they sent the results to the facility?

The first classes will be finishing up pretty soon so well find out one way or the other.

 

[Stinger]

Yeah, even when there wasn't job jeopardy (CPCs at RTF) there were still evals which were graded. I think they sent the results to the facility?

The first classes will be finishing up pretty soon so well find out one way or the other.

Supposed to be high-level tracon supervisors (N90/A80/C90) that will grade the TETRA evals. So I see pass rates being pretty high if it's anything like how the tower PVs used to run. Those evaluators missed things constantly.
I can only see TETRA being non-job-jeopardy if they make RTF a job-jeopardy course again for new-hires.
There was tracon new-hires into 2016 for sure that were job jeopardy.
The class doing TETRA PAs currently are all assigned other tracons they'll be going to. If they pass the PAs, they've got the option of going to N90 and I've heard that some will take it, but that was a while ago.

 

[MJ]

The class doing TETRA PAs currently are all assigned other tracons they'll be going to. If they pass the PAs, they've got the option of going to N90 and I've heard that some will take it, but that was a while ago.

That sounds pretty much like what I was describing earlier. Do you know if that's just for the initial groups?

 

[Stinger]

That sounds pretty much like what I was describing earlier. Do you know if that's just for the initial groups?

As far as I know, it's just for the test classes.
Especially now that we know there's people coming to the Academy soon that are assigned N90.