Florida Surge

[corn4ahead]

Strong demand where Covid is not real!

You mean where people have learned to live with COVID. What a thought.

 

[DankVectorz]

Strong demand where Covid is not real!

You mean where people have learned to live with COVID. What a thought.

There haven’t been Covid restrictions in the northeast in ages. Y’all got nicer weather though in the winter.

 

[boggy]

There haven’t been Covid restrictions in the northeast in ages. Y’all got nicer weather though in the winter.

Winter? What's winter? The south doesn't have winters!

 

[aaran34]

I think we still have to take 2021 numbers with a grain of salt. Business travel will increase and rebound the numbers for many of those facilities. (ZNY, ZOB, ZAU, ZDC). The shift in numbers to southern facilities is quite astonishing though. It shows where the current demand is. Pretty cool.

The southern facilities are booming, especially the Florida facilities. ZJX and ZMA always seemed to hover as top 5-7 but their traffic count has been steadily increasing for years, even pre Covid. But to your point, it’s kind of crazy to see a facility like ZNY still doing low numbers…at least by their standards.

 

[HaZarDouZ]

	Level	Year	Air Carrier	Air Taxi	General Aviation	Military	Total	VFR Advisories
ZUA	8	2021	52,293	1,336	7,158	53,467	114,254	2,619
JCF	8	2021	43,933	25,797	34,497	93,883	198,110	29,286
ZSU	9	2021	136,362	35,015	31,626	1,620	204,623	10,014
HCF	11	2021	323,316	45,821	21,828	20,215	411,180	41,953
ZAN	10	2021	249,241	180,230	49,977	67,580	547,028	6,305
ZBW	11	2021	608,491	220,486	167,461	33,559	1,029,997	38,291
ZSE	10	2021	690,846	116,030	168,973	66,073	1,041,922	45,539
ZLC	10	2021	855,979	264,282	231,389	27,003	1,378,653	26,379
ZOA	11	2021	960,492	183,153	197,664	75,266	1,416,575	80,029
ZAB	10	2021	991,209	217,262	280,715	86,566	1,575,752	90,412
ZOB	12	2021	1,037,834	294,961	231,278	22,026	1,586,099	15,559
ZKC	11	2021	956,611	236,334	340,252	80,104	1,613,301	43,815
ZMP	11	2021	877,756	381,352	356,855	33,710	1,649,673	33,164
ZNY	12	2021	1,178,321	310,370	235,077	23,720	1,747,488	15,645
ZDV	10	2021	1,099,186	361,250	289,214	30,995	1,780,645	24,736
ZID	12	2021	1,224,425	239,876	308,758	27,067	1,800,126	31,824
ZAU	12	2021	1,233,664	339,262	287,504	15,030	1,875,460	19,924
ZLA	12	2021	1,316,872	255,447	309,237	48,385	1,929,941	109,978
ZDC	12	2021	1,255,834	306,409	292,483	79,438	1,934,164	32,596
ZME	12	2021	1,204,525	223,184	434,877	143,517	2,006,103	60,079
ZHU	11	2021	1,159,974	282,483	412,362	167,147	2,021,966	55,692
ZFW	12	2021	1,245,757	308,153	398,089	130,161	2,082,160	92,144
ZMA	11	2021	1,392,219	300,919	469,454	25,493	2,188,085	68,894
ZJX	11	2021	1,409,279	308,026	537,724	111,478	2,366,507	52,358
ZTL	12	2021	1,814,012	349,072	535,454	68,241	2,766,779	50,470
Sub-Total for 2021			23,318,431	5,786,510	6,629,906	1,531,744	37,266,591	1,077,705

Where did you get this from? Thanks for posting.

 

[HaZarDouZ]

Damn ZJX and ZMA are pumpin

Yup exactly and that’s not even considering all the complex weather. Also oceanic isn’t counted in those numbers and ZMA has a ton of oceanic.

 

[HaZarDouZ]

I think we still have to take 2021 numbers with a grain of salt. Business travel will increase and rebound the numbers for many of those facilities. (ZNY, ZOB, ZAU, ZDC). The shift in numbers to southern facilities is quite astonishing though. It shows where the current demand is. Pretty cool.

I don’t think southern traffic will let off anytime soon it’s been building each year even before COVID and now everything is higher than 2019 levels so only means busier traffic all around.

 

[HaZarDouZ]

Can confirm…. And they haven’t even given us a string quartet to play us down ?

There is a little hope on the horizon now with our staffing number being raised, but it’s still going to be a while before any noticeable change occurs.

ZDV is a 10 when D01 and DEN are both 12s

Yeah that kind of shit doesn’t make sense to me… how?

 

[julietoscar]

Yeah that kind of shit doesn’t make sense to me… how?

I'm pretty sure it's because it's not just based on numbers but additional factors like complexity

 

[GulfBravoPapa]

Because the formula uses to determine facility level is whack. Why does GA only count for like half a point? Why does the size of the aircraft matter? Air transport vs. Cargo vs. GA etc. Towers get credit for crossing and/or converging runways even if they are never used. IMO core 30 towers are getting the best out of the complexity index.. nearly everyone else is getting screwed to various degrees. M98 is a 10 while MSP is a 11....? Please. I'm sure there are other oddities out there beyond M98, ZDV, ZJX

 

[fivebyfive]

VFRs do not count for half a point. They count as 1.
IFRs get a weighted count because they require more ATC service. And justifiably, a VFR practice approaches get the same count as an IFR arrival/departure.

The aircraft size doesn't really matter. The aircraft fleet mix is what matters. If you're mixing fighter jets with skyhawks, you get a weighted credit for that vs a tower that just has air carriers with similar performance.

M98 got downgraded right before the pandemic, I believe MSP was slated to get downgraded soon after but just lucked out on the timing. Their level 10 is downgrade is coming.

I'm genuinely curious, aside from CLT, what other airports have crossing/converging RWYs that are rarely or never used?

 

[Move78]

VFRs do not count for half a point. They count as 1.
IFRs get a weighted count because they require more ATC service. And justifiably, a VFR practice approaches get the same count as an IFR arrival/departure.

The aircraft size doesn't really matter. The aircraft fleet mix is what matters. If you're mixing fighter jets with skyhawks, you get a weighted credit for that vs a tower that just has air carriers with similar performance.

M98 got downgraded right before the pandemic, I believe MSP was slated to get downgraded soon after but just lucked out on the timing. Their level 10 is downgrade is coming.

I'm genuinely curious, aside from CLT, what other airports have crossing/converging RWYs that are rarely or never used?

VFRs are .5 in enroute

I'm pretty sure it's because it's not just based on numbers but additional factors like complexity

It’s based on an arbitrary formula that’s meant to represent complexity and fails miserably in some cases. Some facilities’ type of traffic gets over represented in the formula and some get screwed. The center issue is larger though because the union has allowed the agency to just ignore the requirements in the contract for Enroute Facility Pay Levels because apparently they can’t figure out how to count traffic in ERAM. Gave Lockheed 2 Billion dollars.

 

[fivebyfive]

VFRs are .5 in enroute

Whoops. I've never bothered to read the enroute section since Z's don't get to play.

 

[GulfBravoPapa]

I'm genuinely curious, aside from CLT, what other airports have crossing/converging RWYs that are rarely or never used?

MSP and DTW to name two

 

[Homsar]

VFRs do not count for half a point. They count as 1.
IFRs get a weighted count because they require more ATC service.

When you run 6 VFRs in the pattern and work in/out 10 itinerant VFRs between then, and the only things you have to say to an IFR departure are “Cleared for takeoff” and “contact departure” after issuing many instructions to the many VFRs to keep them out of the IFRs way, I think the VFRs are absolutely receiving “more ATC service” than the IFRs ?

 

[Phanatical]

MSP and DTW to name two

BOS and SDF for 2 more

 

[MT]

Word is DTW is being downgraded to a 9 in the near future

 

[ajmezz]

Anybody know how IFR overflights are counted/whats the formula for getting a count vs not?

 

[TowerDonkey]

BOS and SDF for 2 more

hold up there. BOS uses crossing/converging runways almost every day

 

[Phanatical]

hold up there. BOS uses crossing/converging runways almost every day

I meant specifically 15L, but yes