NEST info

Do they use an up to date priority placement tool for the nest tomorrow? One that includes the most recent NCEPT picks?
 
Sorry in advance for the length of this post, but I have some questions I am hoping someone can answer.

I was hired into the agency on a prior experience bid after 10 years in the Air Force. I was assigned and rated at a level 5 tower that was later upgraded to a 6 after I ERRed out to a center. I was retroactively paid for the facility upgrade in a lump sum. 3 years later, my FLM decided I was not progressing enough and started paperwork to wash me out. When a panel reviewed my training records, it was determined that I was unfairly washed out and I was given the option to re-enter training or withdraw and enter the NEST. Due to the fact that several people in my area/the facility were reprimanded over my training and they would likely do what they could to wash me out a second time, NATCA advised me to withdraw from training and said this would not be considered a training failure on my record. I agreed with this and withdrew from training and received an assignment via the NEST.

Today I received my firm offer letter and it includes the verbiage “this offer is being made based upon your failure to successfully train…” When I emailed HR, she told me, “The letters are the same but under Article 61 Nest procedures it will not be labeled training failure.” Is this accurate? I would like to avoid having a training failure on my record and want to make sure I’m not signing paperwork accepting a training failure on my record.

Also, I was told the pay I’ve been offered is being based on my last certified basic pay from 3 years ago when the facility was a level 5 plus the January and June percentage raises we’ve received since then. Is this accurate? I looked at the pay FAQ, but I guess I don’t know how to apply it to my situation. If anyone could advise, I would appreciate it. I just want to make sure I’m not being fucked over before I sign and submit my FOL.
 
Juice1 said:
Sorry in advance for the length of this post, but I have some questions I am hoping someone can answer.

I was hired into the agency on a prior experience bid after 10 years in the Air Force. I was assigned and rated at a level 5 tower that was later upgraded to a 6 after I ERRed out to a center. I was retroactively paid for the facility upgrade in a lump sum. 3 years later, my FLM decided I was not progressing enough and started paperwork to wash me out. When a panel reviewed my training records, it was determined that I was unfairly washed out and I was given the option to re-enter training or withdraw and enter the NEST. Due to the fact that several people in my area/the facility were reprimanded over my training and they would likely do what they could to wash me out a second time, NATCA advised me to withdraw from training and said this would not be considered a training failure on my record. I agreed with this and withdrew from training and received an assignment via the NEST.

Today I received my firm offer letter and it includes the verbiage “this offer is being made based upon your failure to successfully train…” When I emailed HR, she told me, “The letters are the same but under Article 61 Nest procedures it will not be labeled training failure.” Is this accurate? I would like to avoid having a training failure on my record and want to make sure I’m not signing paperwork accepting a training failure on my record.

Also, I was told the pay I’ve been offered is being based on my last certified basic pay from 3 years ago when the facility was a level 5 plus the January and June percentage raises we’ve received since then. Is this accurate? I looked at the pay FAQ, but I guess I don’t know how to apply it to my situation. If anyone could advise, I would appreciate it. I just want to make sure I’m not being fucked over before I sign and submit my FOL.
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A few things here, I would love to know who "NATCA" was who encouraged you to do this, but they might not have had your best interests in mind. This reminds me of the canter NATCA Rep who advised someone on here that if you have all you D-Sides but no radars you can only go to VFR towers not a low level up down. The person bought into that, so they apparently mentioned that in their paperwork to the NEST, and in turn they only got offered tower only facilities in shit locations not a bunch of low up/downs they should have qualified for.

But anyway, it is basically never better to withdraw, by doing that you just relieved what sounds like shit trainers and managers from doing their duty and washing you out the right way, if it was warranted. This was probably a "collaborative" win though for them and NATCA if NATCA didn't want to put the effort into a struggling trainee. Either you are a poor employee nobody likes on either side, or it is terrible dereliction by the union.

It seems like you got a templated letter that lists "training failure" they probably give to everyone if it was a true washout or a withdraw. Lazy on the FAA, maybe there is a note somewhere that lists it as a withdraw, but in their practical terms of how to relocate someone, it doesn't really make a difference.

I wish you would have come here earlier when "NATCA" recommended you withdraw. Looks like the die is cast now and you just have to make sure you certify at the next place. I would not worry as to if this is classified as a training failure or a withdraw either on your letter, or anyplace else. For all practical purposes it makes no difference. I never got how some people think it saves face to withdraw rather than training termination anyway. It's not really any different than the politician who gets caught with drug while banging a hooker and resigns before they are impeached or the CEO who steps down before the Board of Directors is about to remove them. They technically left on their own terms, but does anyone really see it that way and think better of them over that?

Anyway, I don't want to seem like a dick, I feel bad for you, and it looks like you got some bad advice and/or were manipulated.
 
FightingIrish2012 said:
A few things here, I would love to know who "NATCA" was who encouraged you to do this, but they might not have had your best interests in mind. This reminds me of the canter NATCA Rep who advised someone on here that if you have all you D-Sides but no radars you can only go to VFR towers not a low level up down. The person bought into that, so they apparently mentioned that in their paperwork to the NEST, and in turn they only got offered tower only facilities in shit locations not a bunch of low up/downs they should have qualified for.

But anyway, it is basically never better to withdraw, by doing that you just relieved what sounds like shit trainers and managers from doing their duty and washing you out the right way, if it was warranted. This was probably a "collaborative" win though for them and NATCA if NATCA didn't want to put the effort into a struggling trainee. Either you are a poor employee nobody likes on either side, or it is terrible dereliction by the union.

It seems like you got a templated letter that lists "training failure" they probably give to everyone if it was a true washout or a withdraw. Lazy on the FAA, maybe there is a note somewhere that lists it as a withdraw, but in their practical terms of how to relocate someone, it doesn't really make a difference.

I wish you would have come here earlier when "NATCA" recommended you withdraw. Looks like the die is cast now and you just have to make sure you certify at the next place. I would not worry as to if this is classified as a training failure or a withdraw either on your letter, or anyplace else. For all practical purposes it makes no difference. I never got how some people think it saves face to withdraw rather than training termination anyway. It's not really any different than the politician who gets caught with drug while banging a hooker and resigns before they are impeached or the CEO who steps down before the Board of Directors is about to remove them. They technically left on their own terms, but does anyone really see it that way and think better of them over that?

Anyway, I don't want to seem like a dick, I feel bad for you, and it looks like you got some bad advice and/or were manipulated.
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Thanks for the reply. It doesn’t surprise me to hear you think nobody had my best interests in mind. I’ve never gotten the vibe that my union rep gives a shit what happens to me or my training. I also sold my house prematurely based on a NEST timeframe from my rep that ended up being totally off base. Luckily we knew someone that had a temporary rental we’ve been able to stay in, because we would have been fucked otherwise. It’s just been an all around bad experience and I’m glad to be moving on from it.

Anyway, I did not withdraw to save face or because I thought it looked better than washing out. I wasn’t interested in going back into that same environment for what would have probably been the same result in the end. My main concern is getting my kids settled and enrolled in school because the timing has been super shitty in that regard.
 
3 years later? How far along were you? Did you get any R sides or D sides?

That should make a difference in what is offered and a better landing spot right?
 
Juice1 said:
Sorry in advance for the length of this post, but I have some questions I am hoping someone can answer.

I was hired into the agency on a prior experience bid after 10 years in the Air Force. I was assigned and rated at a level 5 tower that was later upgraded to a 6 after I ERRed out to a center. I was retroactively paid for the facility upgrade in a lump sum. 3 years later, my FLM decided I was not progressing enough and started paperwork to wash me out. When a panel reviewed my training records, it was determined that I was unfairly washed out and I was given the option to re-enter training or withdraw and enter the NEST. Due to the fact that several people in my area/the facility were reprimanded over my training and they would likely do what they could to wash me out a second time, NATCA advised me to withdraw from training and said this would not be considered a training failure on my record. I agreed with this and withdrew from training and received an assignment via the NEST.

Today I received my firm offer letter and it includes the verbiage “this offer is being made based upon your failure to successfully train…” When I emailed HR, she told me, “The letters are the same but under Article 61 Nest procedures it will not be labeled training failure.” Is this accurate? I would like to avoid having a training failure on my record and want to make sure I’m not signing paperwork accepting a training failure on my record.

Also, I was told the pay I’ve been offered is being based on my last certified basic pay from 3 years ago when the facility was a level 5 plus the January and June percentage raises we’ve received since then. Is this accurate? I looked at the pay FAQ, but I guess I don’t know how to apply it to my situation. If anyone could advise, I would appreciate it. I just want to make sure I’m not being fucked over before I sign and submit my FOL.
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In regards to the level 5 pay, you said your facility was upgraded to a 6. Were you employed there when it was upgraded or had you already left for the center?

Also, withdrawing vs training failure doesn't matter if you're not successful at your next facility as well. In the grand scheme of things, when deciding to retain you in the FAA or termination, it would he two consecutive "unsuccessful training" situations and they could in turn terminate your employment. But you made your decision.

I'd truly like to know if it was NATCA Leadership in your region or at the center you were at. Like FightingIrish2012 said, you gave the FAA an easy out by withdrawing. I understand how a situation like that plays on your mental stability but I never trust the FAA in decisions like this.

Also, you could be a shitty employee/coworker and are giving us a one sided story. Either way, I feel bad that you're in this situation. Good luck though.
 
Squawk VFR said:
I'd truly like to know if it was NATCA Leadership in your region or at the center you were at.

Also, you could be a shitty employee/coworker and are giving us a one sided story. Either way, I feel bad that you're in this situation. Good luck though.
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I agree. I like to name names. But I could see where he would be worried about tainting things, and all.

As for the other thing, I haven’t ever really seen a situation in all my years and all my facilities where NATCA screwed over a trainee because they wanted them out or to fail.

If anything I’ve seen time and time again NATCA fighting ‘the process’ and getting people recycled who usually didn’t deserve to be, or getting them more hours due to the fact often management was incompetent and can’t follow a training order.

This is usually to the detriment of those on the floor that have to train said individual again and again where they should have been washed out.

It did piss off a lot of those trainers but the end result was usually them better documenting problems the second time, so that on the next review board it wasn’t a factor. Though some trainees then would say ‘everyone is against me’

It’s why the NAS has so many 5+ year trainees in places with reasonable checkout times. Said individual will never say it’s because of thier ability, it’s always something else that caused them to take longer than average.

Pro tip: If you’ve had 3 review boards at a facility it’s probably you.
 
jdatc said:
I agree. I like to name names. But I could see where he would be worried about tainting things, and all.

As for the other thing, I haven’t ever really seen a situation in all my years and all my facilities where NATCA screwed over a trainee because they wanted them out or to fail.

If anything I’ve seen time and time again NATCA fighting ‘the process’ and getting people recycled who usually didn’t deserve to be, or getting them more hours due to the fact often management was incompetent and can’t follow a training order.

This is usually to the detriment of those on the floor that have to train said individual again and again where they should have been washed out.

It did piss off a lot of those trainers but the end result was usually them better documenting problems the second time, so that on the next review board it wasn’t a factor. Though some trainees then would say ‘everyone is against me’

It’s why the NAS has so many 5+ year trainees in places with reasonable checkout times. Said individual will never say it’s because of thier ability, it’s always something else that caused them to take longer than average.

Pro tip: If you’ve had 3 review boards at a facility it’s probably you.
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The only time I have seen it is when the Rep was bucking for a management job, overall though I agree.
 
jdatc said:
I agree. I like to name names. But I could see where he would be worried about tainting things, and all.

As for the other thing, I haven’t ever really seen a situation in all my years and all my facilities where NATCA screwed over a trainee because they wanted them out or to fail.

If anything I’ve seen time and time again NATCA fighting ‘the process’ and getting people recycled who usually didn’t deserve to be, or getting them more hours due to the fact often management was incompetent and can’t follow a training order.

This is usually to the detriment of those on the floor that have to train said individual again and again where they should have been washed out.

It did piss off a lot of those trainers but the end result was usually them better documenting problems the second time, so that on the next review board it wasn’t a factor. Though some trainees then would say ‘everyone is against me’

It’s why the NAS has so many 5+ year trainees in places with reasonable checkout times. Said individual will never say it’s because of thier ability, it’s always something else that caused them to take longer than average.

Pro tip: If you’ve had 3 review boards at a facility it’s probably you.
Click to expand...
Nail on the head

We have a 7+ year trainee at my facility
 
Hey I was hoping to get some advice or insight on how the nest process works. I had my training terminated at JNU, I had a TRB that I felt went really well advocating for the fact that I still want to be a controller and feel like a can absolutely succeed at being a controller and was hoping for a chance at a less seasonal tower or a lower level tower. The statements from my trainers, supervisors and fac rec all indicate that they believe I would be able to succeed at another tower, they even advocated that I could succeed at a different level 5. I mentioned that I was not interested in FSS vs another tower option during the TRB and they understood. I got the email back with the nests decision and am only being offered FSS. I was under the assumption that I would be given a chance at a tower given that there is room for me, I find it wild that there is no lvl 4 tower that needs someone. I guess I am just curious if there is any hope on getting another option instead of what the nest has given me, I feel like the nest just defaulted me to FSS being that I am in Alaska already. I don't know if there is much hope but I would find it hard to not try my very best to fight, as I truly want to be a controller. Is there any chance at all of getting in another panel? Can I wait till a level 4 has room for me, even wait unpaid? Thanks
 
Kieel94 said:
Hey I was hoping to get some advice or insight on how the nest process works. I had my training terminated at JNU, I had a TRB that I felt went really well advocating for the fact that I still want to be a controller and feel like a can absolutely succeed at being a controller and was hoping for a chance at a less seasonal tower or a lower level tower. The statements from my trainers, supervisors and fac rec all indicate that they believe I would be able to succeed at another tower, they even advocated that I could succeed at a different level 5. I mentioned that I was not interested in FSS vs another tower option during the TRB and they understood. I got the email back with the nests decision and am only being offered FSS. I was under the assumption that I would be given a chance at a tower given that there is room for me, I find it wild that there is no lvl 4 tower that needs someone. I guess I am just curious if there is any hope on getting another option instead of what the nest has given me, I feel like the nest just defaulted me to FSS being that I am in Alaska already. I don't know if there is much hope but I would find it hard to not try my very best to fight, as I truly want to be a controller. Is there any chance at all of getting in another panel? Can I wait till a level 4 has room for me, even wait unpaid? Thanks
Click to expand...
If this was your first facility and you’ve never been a CPC, it’s highly unlikely you’ll get something other than FSS. You also won’t be able to “wait” either.
 
Kieel94 said:
Hey I was hoping to get some advice or insight on how the nest process works. I had my training terminated at JNU, I had a TRB that I felt went really well advocating for the fact that I still want to be a controller and feel like a can absolutely succeed at being a controller and was hoping for a chance at a less seasonal tower or a lower level tower. The statements from my trainers, supervisors and fac rec all indicate that they believe I would be able to succeed at another tower, they even advocated that I could succeed at a different level 5. I mentioned that I was not interested in FSS vs another tower option during the TRB and they understood. I got the email back with the nests decision and am only being offered FSS. I was under the assumption that I would be given a chance at a tower given that there is room for me, I find it wild that there is no lvl 4 tower that needs someone. I guess I am just curious if there is any hope on getting another option instead of what the nest has given me, I feel like the nest just defaulted me to FSS being that I am in Alaska already. I don't know if there is much hope but I would find it hard to not try my very best to fight, as I truly want to be a controller. Is there any chance at all of getting in another panel? Can I wait till a level 4 has room for me, even wait unpaid? Thanks
Click to expand...
It’s a rough situation, but if you were at a level five there was always a big chance you would only be offered FSS, it’s not just because you are already in Alaska. When you say the TRB went well by people advocating for you to go someplace else in a control position do you mean statements all those people sent to the NEST? If all they did was say that in the TRB it didn’t go anywhere, as the TRB has nothing to do with relocation, they only recommend continuation or termination of training.

So unfortunately your TRB did not go well, if the recommendation was termination. Some people say the recommendation of the TRB gets forwarded to the NEST, so if the TRB write up included that people though you would be a successful controller elsewhere, maybe it got to the NEST that way, but unfortunately I don’t even know for sure if a copy of the recommendation goes to NEST, and I certainly never seen any evidence that the NEST panel reads/comprehends it even if it does.
 

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