HurryUpandWait
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It’s embarrassing. No other way to put it.
2024 NATCA President Election
- Thread starter FightingIrish2012
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TommyLaGwadia
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Biden terminated Trump’s EO’s that were going to take away official time, thus neutering the union. It should also come as no surprise that Republicans don’t like unions to begin with. There are reasons that he’s not endorsed by these unions.
To play devil’s advocate though - I’m not sure what’s really even been done with all that official time. It seems like it’s being used for any reason but for the ones that matter to controllers in the operation.
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Phanatical
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I tried to summarize the FB Live video as much as I could.
10/3/2022: Center FacRep Meeting - Boulder, CO
Rich addressed the FacReps and discussed ABACUS. Rich said he had an agreement to upgrade 5 ARTCCs, but had not previously advised the NEB of the agreement. Information was considered confusing and interesting but no movement was made. Rich provided no information about which 5 ARTCCs were included. ARTCC FacReps were asked to not discuss the agreement because it was not complete and the NEB was not aware of the agreement. Rich stated he needed the candidate for FAA Administrator to be confirmed which did not happen.
10/11/2022: NEB Meeting - San Antonio, TX
5 ARTCC upgrade discussion placed on NEB Agenda. ABACUS was no longer going to receive funding, and a potential workgroup was needed to see if any facilities could be upgraded and then place metrics around that to see if any facility was a candidate for upgrade. Questions were asked. At no time was a real plan presented to establish that workgroup to upgrade 5 ARTCCs. There was no guarantee that by establishing the workgroup that any facility would be upgraded. No vote was taken.
December 2023:
ARTCC FacReps briefed that NEB did not entertain a motion or vote to upgrade 5 ARTCCs, when that was never the case to begin with. NEB members requested an update at the next NEB meeting in January.
1/17/2024: NEB Meeting - Virtual
Several questions during NEB meeting regarding the prior discussions which occurred. Rich stated that he proposed 7 facilities to be upgraded but he really only wanted 5 (ZJX, ZMA, ZHU, ZAB, ZDV) and only wanted the extra 2 in order to provide room for negotiation. ND asked if there was some level of non-support for a workgroup or for the upgrade process to continue, and also inquired if the process would fall under SRJ-1 or SRJ-2 since neither rule appeared to fit. It was stated incorrectly that the process did fall under provisions of the Constitution, and also that there were 5 facilities that were going to upgraded and ND was now blocking the process by inquiring about how the process was to be accomplished. At no point was there a vote or plan in place to accomplish any upgrades because the process which was discussed ultimately did fall outside of the purview of the NATCA Constitution. There is not, nor has there ever, been any agreement between Santa and the FAA which would have upgraded any facility.
10/3/2022: Center FacRep Meeting - Boulder, CO
Rich addressed the FacReps and discussed ABACUS. Rich said he had an agreement to upgrade 5 ARTCCs, but had not previously advised the NEB of the agreement. Information was considered confusing and interesting but no movement was made. Rich provided no information about which 5 ARTCCs were included. ARTCC FacReps were asked to not discuss the agreement because it was not complete and the NEB was not aware of the agreement. Rich stated he needed the candidate for FAA Administrator to be confirmed which did not happen.
10/11/2022: NEB Meeting - San Antonio, TX
5 ARTCC upgrade discussion placed on NEB Agenda. ABACUS was no longer going to receive funding, and a potential workgroup was needed to see if any facilities could be upgraded and then place metrics around that to see if any facility was a candidate for upgrade. Questions were asked. At no time was a real plan presented to establish that workgroup to upgrade 5 ARTCCs. There was no guarantee that by establishing the workgroup that any facility would be upgraded. No vote was taken.
December 2023:
ARTCC FacReps briefed that NEB did not entertain a motion or vote to upgrade 5 ARTCCs, when that was never the case to begin with. NEB members requested an update at the next NEB meeting in January.
1/17/2024: NEB Meeting - Virtual
Several questions during NEB meeting regarding the prior discussions which occurred. Rich stated that he proposed 7 facilities to be upgraded but he really only wanted 5 (ZJX, ZMA, ZHU, ZAB, ZDV) and only wanted the extra 2 in order to provide room for negotiation. ND asked if there was some level of non-support for a workgroup or for the upgrade process to continue, and also inquired if the process would fall under SRJ-1 or SRJ-2 since neither rule appeared to fit. It was stated incorrectly that the process did fall under provisions of the Constitution, and also that there were 5 facilities that were going to upgraded and ND was now blocking the process by inquiring about how the process was to be accomplished. At no point was there a vote or plan in place to accomplish any upgrades because the process which was discussed ultimately did fall outside of the purview of the NATCA Constitution. There is not, nor has there ever, been any agreement between Santa and the FAA which would have upgraded any facility.
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Appreciate the summary, I will watch it this morning.
ManBearPig
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Thanks for typing that all out.
Rich and Mick are full of shit, and blatantly lying to the membership.
ClearanceClarence
Legendary Member
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Putting the actual issue of the center upgrades aside, the fact that the workforce has collectively had to spend DAYS siphoning through information just to find out who in national leadership is lying speaks volumes. At the end of the day, this is NOT how representation or leadership should be happening. I for one don’t trust a single one of these establishment fucks. Any one of them would lie, cheat, or steal to try and maintain or gain power. The ONLY hope NATCA has is Justin Dailey. If either Santa or Nick wins, NATCA will be gone before the end of the decade.
FightingIrish2012
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I know Mick personally, served in the military with him, and I won't accept this slander toward him and his family, if you have any balls meet me at the National Mall at the opening of NATCA in Washington and agree to a duel there............. just messing with you, lol!!!!!!
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Justin Dailey is the only answer.
Look at how far this has fallen. It’s a cess pool. Can’t get facts. Monthly getaways for the NEB to exotic locations.
It’s actually sad how far this has fallen. And this happened under alledgelly the mot pro union president. We have nothing to show but article 114 duties for everyone in cahoots.
Look at how far this has fallen. It’s a cess pool. Can’t get facts. Monthly getaways for the NEB to exotic locations.
It’s actually sad how far this has fallen. And this happened under alledgelly the mot pro union president. We have nothing to show but article 114 duties for everyone in cahoots.
ZHU Facrep’s Email
“On February 1st, an update from the New England Region (NNE) RVP Mick Devine referenced the most recent NEB meeting and the possibility of five (5) En Route centers being upgraded. The update quickly spread across message boards and social media and it was implied ZHU is one of the facilities referenced.
I spent the better part of the last two days talking with NATCA’s President Rich Santa, Executive Vice President Andrew LeBovidge, NSW Regional Vice President Nick Daniels, multiple other members who were at the NEB meeting and the Facreps of the other four referenced facilities, in order to gather all the facts prior to addressing ZHU’s membership.
The NNE update is full of mistruths and misinformation which I believe were designed solely to score political points for one or two candidates for National Office while insinuating another candidate did not support this effort.
I was assured by NATCA’s President Rich Santa that NNE RVP Mick Devine would be addressing and correcting his ‘mistake’ and misinformation. Rich also confirmed, despite what the NNE update implied, no vote was ever taken on the matter and no member of the NEB ever spoke out against or would not support upgrading facilities. At the latest NEB meeting Nick Daniels said, “I want it noted for the record, on behalf of all the members of the Southwest Region which I represent, we support any and all upgrades to our facilities, particularly for Albuquerque and Houston Centers.”
Hell, the agency can agree through the proper process to upgrade ZHU today, tomorrow, or the next day through our ongoing dispute. Instead, they are fighting NATCA tooth and nail to avoid a ZHU upgrade.”
I have no doubt that Mick’s “mistake” was intentional. Complete chaos agent. I say this as someone who is NOT a Nick/Jamaal stan
More statement regarding Mick's misinformation campaign
“On February 1st, an update from the New England Region (NNE) RVP Mick Devine referenced the most recent NEB meeting and the possibility of five (5) En Route centers being upgraded. The update quickly spread across message boards and social media and it was implied ZHU is one of the facilities referenced.
I spent the better part of the last two days talking with NATCA’s President Rich Santa, Executive Vice President Andrew LeBovidge, NSW Regional Vice President Nick Daniels, multiple other members who were at the NEB meeting and the Facreps of the other four referenced facilities, in order to gather all the facts prior to addressing ZHU’s membership.
The NNE update is full of mistruths and misinformation which I believe were designed solely to score political points for one or two candidates for National Office while insinuating another candidate did not support this effort.
I was assured by NATCA’s President Rich Santa that NNE RVP Mick Devine would be addressing and correcting his ‘mistake’ and misinformation. Rich also confirmed, despite what the NNE update implied, no vote was ever taken on the matter and no member of the NEB ever spoke out against or would not support upgrading facilities. At the latest NEB meeting Nick Daniels said, “I want it noted for the record, on behalf of all the members of the Southwest Region which I represent, we support any and all upgrades to our facilities, particularly for Albuquerque and Houston Centers.”
Hell, the agency can agree through the proper process to upgrade ZHU today, tomorrow, or the next day through our ongoing dispute. Instead, they are fighting NATCA tooth and nail to avoid a ZHU upgrade.”
I have no doubt that Mick’s “mistake” was intentional. Complete chaos agent. I say this as someone who is NOT a Nick/Jamaal stan
More statement regarding Mick's misinformation campaign
ClearanceClarence
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The timing of all this was odd as well. Mick had been putting out campaign videos every couple days pushing his dumb low level facilities vs GS pay scale platform. Then he goes dark for several weeks before dumping this bomb out of the blue. Almost seems like he realized he was shitting the bed with his campaign and decided to change tactics to a chaos strategy, throwing everyone but himself under the bus. He should be forced to resign.
For now after watching Nicks video I'm choosing to believe what makes the most sense. The 5 centers were never slated for an upgrade. If they were and it was blocked,Santa and co would have been happy to share that news to destroy their opposition.
I will say at the same time it's hard to understand why Mick would make some shit up like this without proof to back it up. If he would truly make up and embellish a situation to this level and not expect it to be political suicide once he was proven wrong, he's a true moron.
JD has my vote anyways. I don't think you need to be a 114 full time Natca politician to fight for your fellow workers.
I will say at the same time it's hard to understand why Mick would make some shit up like this without proof to back it up. If he would truly make up and embellish a situation to this level and not expect it to be political suicide once he was proven wrong, he's a true moron.
JD has my vote anyways. I don't think you need to be a 114 full time Natca politician to fight for your fellow workers.
ClearanceClarence
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I mean historically speaking, Mick does seem to be a bit of a loose cannon and not the sharpest tool in the shed. This is the same dude that blasted out an email a few years ago literally encouraging the bullying of non-dues paying coworkers throughout his region. This is also the guy whose entire campaign for EVP seems to be “the establishment has fucked you over” - while actively having been a part of the establishment as either an ARVP or RVP for going on a decade.
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Foppery&Whim
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True or not, doesn't this say more about the NEB as a whole that they didn't bother to call a vote because of a lack of "interest"? If they adopted that type of mentality when it comes to decision making, you can expect them to rollover when it comes to contract negotiations.
Phanatical
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Vote on what? There was never a proposal.
Foppery&Whim
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I'm merely pointing out if there were a proposal, the entire NEB is feckless and can't be relied at all to serve the interests of rank and file. We literally need to vote out everyone because it'll just be more of the same.
Why did nobody on the NEB, including Nick Daniels, ask for further updates?
Maybe it’s just me, but if I could get several of my regions Z’s an upgrade, I would ask for an update at every NEB meeting after Rich presented it the first time. But no, let’s let over a year go by before ever mentioning it again.
Maybe it’s just me, but if I could get several of my regions Z’s an upgrade, I would ask for an update at every NEB meeting after Rich presented it the first time. But no, let’s let over a year go by before ever mentioning it again.
32andBelow
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I don’t know if we can call either side as total truth. But at least these people are nervous and finally talking about stuff. What’s more scary is how any discussion about this has been completely censored from Reddit. Jamal even used the word Reddit in the video.
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Key thing he said, if you’re not on that workgroup you don’t ask about it. And that’s the problem. It makes it seem like you can’t ask questions, you can’t oppose the hierarchy of the union. And that right there is bullshit. You can support someone and not agree with something they do. I’ve talked to many people who have been blacklisted by the union. The union needs to stop acting like the good ole boys club. If you can’t take criticism, you shouldn’t be a leader.
But there wasn't even a proposal. Just talk. Santa brought it up and had more than a year to put together a work group to execute this. Nothing happened!! Then out of the blue, not because it's campaign season, Rich and Mick started a lie to hide their ineptitude and blame it on the NEB
CaptainObvious
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I tried digging, apparently can’t get rid of a mod on Reddit, so just stuck with the censorship
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