Management wants to kill 4 day AWS.

[Tater_Toad]

Is it just the northeast or nationwide? Our ATM has informed us of higher ups initiative to kill the 4 10's schedule. Without this schedule and the 4 overtimes per check, this job doesn't pay a wage worth working for. I'm not some fat cat overpaid and underworked N90 controller making $350k/year with OT. I'll never be able to buy a house within an hours drive of my facility even with the OT. My rent is fucking ridiculous. Cost of living notwithstanding we should have the opportunity to work 4 10s and get some work/life balance.

Can we get some initiative to force NATCA to take on this fight? Can we fucking fight the FAA please?

Call your union hierarchy and ask about this. It should be the right of all of us to have a 4 day work week. Ask natca regional and national to make some noise about how we refuse to accept this infringement. If your region isn't doing it, ask them to call the northeast region and get together like some sort of labor union and fight the FAA.

They want us to work six days next year just like we do now, but they want to pay us almost 20% less.

 

[Phanatical]

Can’t tell if troll or…?

 

[Tater_Toad]

Can’t tell if troll or…?

Why would this be a troll post? Because I didn't give a fuck about the toxic assholes at N90 or from the sarcasm asking if the union would act like a fucking union? Either one would be understandable, not sure what else might lead you to believe it'sa troll post.

Does your facility have a 4 10s line? Is management trying to take it away for next year?

 

[Raise when?]

Why would this be a troll post? Because I didn't give a fuck about the toxic assholes at N90 or from the sarcasm asking if the union would act like a fucking union? Either one would be understandable, not sure what else might lead you to believe it'sa troll post.

Does your facility have a 4 10s line? Is management trying to take it away for next year?

I'm on 4 10s this year. They're killing it for my area next year because we lost like 6 cpcs...

 

[Phanatical]

Why would this be a troll post? Because I didn't give a fuck about the toxic assholes at N90 or from the sarcasm asking if the union would act like a fucking union? Either one would be understandable, not sure what else might lead you to believe it'sa troll post.

Does your facility have a 4 10s line? Is management trying to take it away for next year?

If your facility can’t support it, then it can’t support it. The Agency isn’t going to pay additional overtime when they can better utilize their resources elsewhere.

 

[bravounite33]

It's Article 34 of the contract (specifically Section 5 of it). The standard schedule is 5 days with 8 hour shifts. We can negotiate for the AWS "provided any schedule agreed to by the Parties would not have an adverse Agency impact or result in any incurred overtime entitlements."

I'd be willing to bet the Agency sees 4 overtimes per check as an adverse Agency impact... That's one of those things that's pretty clear cut so it's hard to fight back on. If you think you have a good answer though, tell your rep and see if they can push for something but I would set your expectations pretty low for this one.

 

[dingalings99]

It's Article 34 of the contract (specifically Section 5 of it). The standard schedule is 5 days with 8 hour shifts. We can negotiate for the AWS "provided any schedule agreed to by the Parties would not have an adverse Agency impact or result in any incurred overtime entitlements."

I'd be willing to bet the Agency sees 4 overtimes per check as an adverse Agency impact... That's one of those things that's pretty clear cut so it's hard to fight back on. If you think you have a good answer though, tell your rep and see if they can push for something but I would set your expectations pretty low for this one.

The agency is retarded if you are working 4 10s compared to 5 8s, then on the 5 line you would still be working 2 hours of holdover on 4 days = 1 day OT, then there's the day of OT you'd be working on a 58 line anyway so it's literally the same thing

 

[FightingIrish2012]

NATCA won’t fight for you, the 4-10 AWS will be extinct soon just because it will be impossible due to staffing. If the past there might have been ways to fight it even if it did cause more OT, but NATCA will never back fighting it again.

 

[Nothanks]

NATCA won’t fight for you, the 4-10 AWS will be extinct soon just because it will be impossible due to staffing. If the past there might have been ways to fight it even if it did cause more OT, but NATCA will never back fighting it again.

Maybe at your facility it’ll be gone. We have a CBA still, and we fight. Everyone seems to be just rolling over on things “poor me”. F that, I’m fighting

 

[Tater_Toad]

If your facility can’t support it, then it can’t support it. The Agency isn’t going to pay additional overtime when they can better utilize their resources elsewhere.

The facility can support it, the facility would not run as well without it due to the fact that we're about 60% staffed with a million trainees. If they want less overtime they can staff the fucking facility properly.

Maybe at your facility it’ll be gone. We have a CBA still, and we fight. Everyone seems to be just rolling over on things “poor me”. F that, I’m fighting

What are you guys doing and saying to fight it. It has always been in our schedule mou. I'm never going to accept a holdover or come in for a single overtime if they try this shit. The FAA needs to fear it's employees.

It's Article 34 of the contract (specifically Section 5 of it). The standard schedule is 5 days with 8 hour shifts. We can negotiate for the AWS "provided any schedule agreed to by the Parties would not have an adverse Agency impact or result in any incurred overtime entitlements."

I'd be willing to bet the Agency sees 4 overtimes per check as an adverse Agency impact... That's one of those things that's pretty clear cut so it's hard to fight back on. If you think you have a good answer though, tell your rep and see if they can push for something but I would set your expectations pretty low for this one.

Unfortunately this is my assumption as well. Sounds like "adverse agency impact" is the driver for change. If it's a perceived impact I wonder if some assclown cubicle monkey's misguided perception will be more or less impactful than a tangible, quantifiable impact.

 

[Nothanks]

The facility can support it, the facility would not run as well without it due to the fact that we're about 60% staffed with a million trainees. If they want less overtime they can staff the fucking facility properly.



What are you guys doing and saying to fight it. It has always been in our schedule mou. I'm never going to accept a holdover or come in for a single overtime if they try this shit. The FAA needs to fear it's employees.



Unfortunately this is my assumption as well. Sounds like "adverse agency impact" is the driver for change. If it's a perceived impact I wonder if some assclown cubicle monkey's misguided perception will be more or less impactful than a tangible, quantifiable impact.

No one is negotiating anything right now. So this is all just rumors. The aws thing is the same thing every year. It’s a hamster wheel, have to make your case that it’s not an adverse impact

 

[Tater_Toad]

No one is negotiating anything right now. So this is all just rumors. The aws thing is the same thing every year. It’s a hamster wheel, have to make your case that it’s not an adverse impact

We'll that's why I'm starting to prepare. What arguments have been made in the past? We have all new management and natca board this year. The deck is attached to pull the wool over the e boards eyes.

 

[penaltyvectors]

Without this schedule and the 4 overtimes per check

If you're already working 60hr weeks, going to a 5/8 schedule should have almost no impact on your life, no? Instead of working 2 10-hour OT days, you just work 1 8-hour OT day and stay for holdover every day. I'd think it would be better actually - giving yourself a 2 day weekend only costs you 8 hours of OT/SL instead of 10 and you can just turn down the 2OT if you ever have something to do before or after work. I'd get it if you were going from 3 days off every week to 2, but what am I missing?

 

[Sassyquatch]

We had 4/10s in 2023 since management decided to continue on with the 804 process without actually giving us the bodies to make it work, that line was why we didn't have to regularly give up airspace to center. We had more CPCs into 2024 but management didn't want us on 4/10s, saying it "created more overtime" and we had the highest number of OT hours in the region. I'm pretty sure our entire region was in a fight against management last year to keep the 4/10s, obviously we lost it. We're still on 6 day work weeks. We'll see what happens this year but I'm sure this will be a nationwide issue the longer our facilities go understaffed without any real solution.

 

[Phillytroll69]

The agency is retarded if you are working 4 10s compared to 5 8s, then on the 5 line you would still be working 2 hours of holdover on 4 days = 1 day OT, then there's the day of OT you'd be working on a 58 line anyway so it's literally the same thing

Not quite.

One 10 hour person bangs out, you are short on 2 shifts.

You can't hold a 10 hour person over

 

[Nothanks]

Not quite.

One 10 hour person bangs out, you are short on 2 shifts.

You can't hold a 10 hour person over

Hold over - You already gained that coverage somewhere else

Bang/short- f outta here with a sick leave hit during BWS negotiations

 

[Tater_Toad]

If you're already working 60hr weeks, going to a 5/8 schedule should have almost no impact on your life, no? Instead of working 2 10-hour OT days, you just work 1 8-hour OT day and stay for holdover every day. I'd think it would be better actually - giving yourself a 2 day weekend only costs you 8 hours of OT/SL instead of 10 and you can just turn down the 2OT if you ever have something to do before or after work. I'd get it if you were going from 3 days off every week to 2, but what am I missing?

The problem is they may not do holdover every day so I'd still be at work 6 days for less money. The trainees will suffer the most with less coverage on the weekends during the busy hours we will not be able to accommodate as much training.

5/8 has a huge impact on my life in that I can't save much money to buy a car to get to work when mine dies in a few years, or save up to buy a house so that I can afford to retire at 56, or find don't eat to be able to afford to have a fucking family.

This job is not paying a wage worth working for.

 

[ATCJoe85]

The problem is they may not do holdover every day so I'd still be at work 6 days for less money. The trainees will suffer the most with less coverage on the weekends during the busy hours we will not be able to accommodate as much training.

5/8 has a huge impact on my life in that I can't save much money to buy a car to get to work when mine dies in a few years, or save up to buy a house so that I can afford to retire at 56, or find don't eat to be able to afford to have a fucking family.

This job is not paying a wage worth working for.

I agree this job isn't paying enough, and I can appreciate that OT helps. But spending your energy fighting to work 60 hours a week instead of fighting for a raise comes across as extremely counter productive.

I like the OT money, but if they ever cut it... I may whine, but I won't dare ask for it to be put back in play.

 

[Nothanks]

The problem is they may not do holdover every day so I'd still be at work 6 days for less money. The trainees will suffer the most with less coverage on the weekends during the busy hours we will not be able to accommodate as much training.

5/8 has a huge impact on my life in that I can't save much money to buy a car to get to work when mine dies in a few years, or save up to buy a house so that I can afford to retire at 56, or find don't eat to be able to afford to have a fucking family.

This job is not paying a wage worth working for.

So you are saying that 4/10 costs the agency more money at your facility ?not a good argument. I’d get off .65 and maybe search for a job that pays you what you need

 

[AB19]

What kind of lifestyle do you people live that you need to work sixty hours a week