Management wants to kill 4 day AWS.

[Phanatical]

This job is not paying a wage worth working for.

Buc-ee’s is always hiring, man.

 

[Tater_Toad]

I agree this job isn't paying enough, and I can appreciate that OT helps. But spending your energy fighting to work 60 hours a week instead of fighting for a raise comes across as extremely counter productive.

I like the OT money, but if they ever cut it... I may whine, but I won't dare ask for it to be put back in play.

If there were a way to get a pay raise I'd join the fight. It's not happening in the amounts required to make this job worthwhile for under a level 10.

What method has anyone suggested other than just crying and making brain damaged posts like you're a Caribbean pirate on Reddit?

At least the OT is a thing that already exists and is impossible to avoid. I just want the maximum, which currently exists and there is a basis for it already.

What kind of lifestyle do you people live that you need to work sixty hours a week

Rent. Food. Build emergency savings. Occasional entertainment. Rent and food without OT is 65% of my net without Even half the TSP max. Am I supposed to not save for retirement?

 

[32andBelow]

If there were a way to get a pay raise I'd join the fight. It's not happening in the amounts required to make this job worthwhile for under a level 10.

What method has anyone suggested other than just crying and making brain damaged posts like you're a Caribbean pirate on Reddit?

At least the OT is a thing that already exists and is impossible to avoid. I just want the maximum, which currently exists and there is a basis for it already.


Rent. Food. Build emergency savings. Occasional entertainment. Rent and food without OT is 65% of my net without Even half the TSP max. Am I supposed to not save for retirement?

Eagerly working 60 hours a week shows them everything is fine

 

[Tater_Toad]

Eagerly working 60 hours a week shows them everything is fine

I guess I should live paycheck to paycheck and fear a major expense? That'll show them.

 

[32andBelow]

I guess I should live paycheck to paycheck and fear a major expense? That'll show them.

I don’t have an answer besides that many controllers really need a raise

 

[AB19]

If there were a way to get a pay raise I'd join the fight. It's not happening in the amounts required to make this job worthwhile for under a level 10.

What method has anyone suggested other than just crying and making brain damaged posts like you're a Caribbean pirate on Reddit?

At least the OT is a thing that already exists and is impossible to avoid. I just want the maximum, which currently exists and there is a basis for it already.


Rent. Food. Build emergency savings. Occasional entertainment. Rent and food without OT is 65% of my net without Even half the TSP max. Am I supposed to not save for retirement?

Idk what level you're at but 65% on food and rent is insane

 

[Raise when?]

Idk what level you're at but 65% on food and rent is insane

Dude, housing costs are insane now. New CPC's can't afford a house in my neighborhood now, and I live in the midwest. I started in 09, so I'm doing okay, but it's really a fucking shame that this job is providing a lower quality of life for the younger trainees and cpc's because the pay hasn't kept up with the times. I can't stand when people attack other BUE's finances. It's just a simple fact of the matter that our purchasing power as a career is hurting right now.

 

[bravounite33]

The agency is retarded if you are working 4 10s compared to 5 8s, then on the 5 line you would still be working 2 hours of holdover on 4 days = 1 day OT, then there's the day of OT you'd be working on a 58 line anyway so it's literally the same thing

It's close to but not exactly the same. You shouldn't be considering holdover in negotiations (just like you shouldn't be considering sick hits...though management needs to be reminded of this yearly). If you know you are going to have to run 6 day weeks because you don't have the bodies, then running a 4/10 schedule means everyone is getting 16 hrs of OT every week, while on the 5/8 schedule, it's only 8 hrs a week. Yes, it could even out by using holdover on the 8 hr days, and yes, management does get you for an extra 2 hrs on the 10 hr days as regular pay and not OT pay but again, those extra 2 hrs might not be "needed" to run the schedule each day. I personally don't know of any facilities that mandate six 10 hour days a week. I just know people are on the six 8 hour days and get held for 2 hrs a few times throughout the week but definitely not most of the days. So in general, the 4/10 schedule will cost the agency an extra 8 hours every week in OT per controller if they run 6 day schedules, which is why the agency will usually revert to a 5/8 schedule (unless your manager is just completely clueless).

 

[S.T.O.P.]

Dude, housing costs are insane now. New CPC's can't afford a house in my neighborhood now, and I live in the midwest. I started in 09, so I'm doing okay, but it's really a fucking shame that this job is providing a lower quality of life for the younger trainees and cpc's because the pay hasn't kept up with the times. I can't stand when people attack other BUE's finances. It's just a simple fact of the matter that our purchasing power as a career is hurting right now.

The FAA is blind to SoCal rn, a monthly mortgage payment in SD is around 5-6k a month. I am pretty sure only SCT makes remotely enough to have a home. I think average rents are between 2500-2900 a month as well for a 1 bedroom. 2% raise is laughable

 

[Tater_Toad]

It's close to but not exactly the same. You shouldn't be considering holdover in negotiations (just like you shouldn't be considering sick hits...though management needs to be reminded of this yearly). If you know you are going to have to run 6 day weeks because you don't have the bodies, then running a 4/10 schedule means everyone is getting 16 hrs of OT every week, while on the 5/8 schedule, it's only 8 hrs a week. Yes, it could even out by using holdover on the 8 hr days, and yes, management does get you for an extra 2 hrs on the 10 hr days as regular pay and not OT pay but again, those extra 2 hrs might not be "needed" to run the schedule each day. I personally don't know of any facilities that mandate six 10 hour days a week. I just know people are on the six 8 hour days and get held for 2 hrs a few times throughout the week but definitely not most of the days. So in general, the 4/10 schedule will cost the agency an extra 8 hours every week in OT per controller if they run 6 day schedules, which is why the agency will usually revert to a 5/8 schedule (unless your manager is just completely clueless).

Right. That's kinda the whole problem. So how can we do a little hoodwink so I can have a paycheck worth working for. I'm not stupid, I can do math and obviously the FAA hates us and doesn't want us to have money so they can fuck us over, so how can I get fucked and like a proper whore get to keep my fucking money. How do I beat my pimp?

 

[COWTOWN]

The FAA is blind to SoCal rn, a monthly mortgage payment in SD is around 5-6k a month. I am pretty sure only SCT makes remotely enough to have a home. I think average rents are between 2500-2900 a month as well for a 1 bedroom. 2% raise is laughable

5-6k in SoCal? Maybe in Temecula with 20% down. This was way under estimated for a single family home unfortunately in SD county.

 

[acutetriangles]

Idk what level you're at but 65% on food and rent is insane

Yeah that’s wild

What method has anyone suggested other than just crying and making brain damaged posts like you're a Caribbean pirate on Reddit?

This is well said. The methods are regurgitating Raise Nau, etc. or creating a Reddit account with some fake movement like New NATCA or Reject Dedly 6. Sadly, we’re screwed.

 

[bravounite33]

Right. That's kinda the whole problem. So how can we do a little hoodwink so I can have a paycheck worth working for. I'm not stupid, I can do math and obviously the FAA hates us and doesn't want us to have money so they can fuck us over, so how can I get fucked and like a proper whore get to keep my fucking money. How do I beat my pimp?

I personally don’t see any good argument that can be made to keep the 4/10 schedule in negotiations. Again, the onus is on us (NATCA) to convince the agency it’s not an adverse schedule to run for them but if you’re on 6 days weeks that’s pretty much impossible to do.

But even going to the 5/8 schedule, just make it very clear to your management that you want as much OT as possible and you’ll gladly stay 2 hrs each day and that gives you the exact same result as working the 4/10 schedule if you get held 4 times a week. They still have to run the OT list to ensure everyone has their fair opportunity at the OT though but that’s about all you can do.

 

[Phillytroll69]

What kind of lifestyle do you people live that you need to work sixty hours a week

You asked the wrong question

It's where, not what.

 

[KP-ATC]

The problem is they may not do holdover every day so I'd still be at work 6 days for less money. The trainees will suffer the most with less coverage on the weekends during the busy hours we will not be able to accommodate as much training.

5/8 has a huge impact on my life in that I can't save much money to buy a car to get to work when mine dies in a few years, or save up to buy a house so that I can afford to retire at 56, or find don't eat to be able to afford to have a fucking family.

This job is not paying a wage worth working for.

Go do something else for a career. This one isn't what it used to be.

 

[DankVectorz]

What kind of lifestyle do you people live that you need to work sixty hours a week

Track days are expensive

 

[KP-ATC]

What kind of lifestyle do you people live that you need to work sixty hours a week

Some facilities are in high cost of living areas to the point that being a controller isn't financially different than entry level service industry jobs.

 

[Ad1234]

We'll that's why I'm starting to prepare. What arguments have been made in the past? We have all new management and natca board this year. The deck is attached to pull the wool over the e boards eyes.

You managers will take the exact amount of people you have, combined with the amount of leave you earn and build a schedule in a program called BATS. They should be building multiple with one including the 4/10s. One of its intent is to show how much overtime they can expect. The union rep helping to negotiate the schedule, BWS should know and be able to see this. Managment will always push for the schedule they build that appears to show the lowest amount of overtime. Look for bats and you will get an idea of what they are considering. With less people 4/10s is gonna leave gaps of coverage at sometimes, and you being at 60percent that seems likely especially with the amount of overtime you work.

Dude, housing costs are insane now. New CPC's can't afford a house in my neighborhood now, and I live in the midwest. I started in 09, so I'm doing okay, but it's really a fucking shame that this job is providing a lower quality of life for the younger trainees and cpc's because the pay hasn't kept up with the times. I can't stand when people attack other BUE's finances. It's just a simple fact of the matter that our purchasing power as a career is hurting right now.

Where in the Midwest?

 

[EightTwoSierra]

Dude, housing costs are insane now. New CPC's can't afford a house in my neighborhood now, and I live in the midwest. I started in 09, so I'm doing okay, but it's really a fucking shame that this job is providing a lower quality of life for the younger trainees and cpc's because the pay hasn't kept up with the times. I can't stand when people attack other BUE's finances. It's just a simple fact of the matter that our purchasing power as a career is hurting right now.

This is so true. I’m right in the middle in my tower with seniority. Older guys are living large with mortgages half of mine. But the youngest guys at my tower are paying 4x on their mortgages compared to mine and are struggling. Pay used to be really good. These new guys can barely eat!

 

[Raise when?]

Where in the Midwest?

Chicagoland, west suburb. A house in my subdivision just went for over a million dollars. My home would likely go for 800+.