Management wants to kill 4 day AWS.

[Nothanks]

yet

It never will be. Its not a part of the changes. 10 hour rule works with that

Quick turns aren’t good for you and once again your anecdotal evidence doesn’t change what’s commonplace in the FAA

He didn’t say anything about a quick turn ? You just say random things quoting people’s posts with no context. It’s weird

 

[Raise when?]

He didn’t say anything about a quick turn ? You just say random things quoting people’s posts with no context. It’s weird

quick turns are part of shift work, try to keep up lil buddy

 

[Nothanks]

quick turns are part of shift work, try to keep up lil buddy

Ralph didn’t mention quick turns. No context

 

[32andBelow]

quick turns are part of shift work, try to keep up lil buddy

No it’s not. We are on the only regarde doing this shit

 

[Gauff]

No it’s not. We are on the only regarde doing this shit

Yup normal shift work jobs you are on either days, swings, or mids. You don't rotate through them all. Normal people would find that to be an insane way to live but not controllers

 

[KP-ATC]

Yup normal shift work jobs you are on either days, swings, or mids. You don't rotate through them all. Normal people would find that to be an insane way to live but not controllers

Those other careers do their normal jobs on the mids. If we take brand new FPLs and stick them on mids, they are guaranteed to have problems when they are able to bid days or swings. And that's not saying anything about the recruiting and retention problems it would cause.

 

[Nothanks]

Those other careers do their normal jobs on the mids. If we take brand new FPLs and stick them on mids, they are guaranteed to have problems when they are able to bid days or swings. And that's not saying anything about the recruiting and retention problems it would cause.

Overall I’d say this is pretty accurate

 

[RalphBeast]

Yup normal shift work jobs you are on either days, swings, or mids. You don't rotate through them all. Normal people would find that to be an insane way to live but not controllers

Mids are not necessarily the least desirable shifts in other jobs - years ago I was talking to a Chicago cop who told me that at his precinct all the rookies go straight to the 4pm-midnight swing shift. My SIL is a nurse and midnight shifts at her hospital require some seniority as well - they are pretty popular with the younger grads that have tons of energy and no kids and need the differential to pay off student loans, and mid-seniority nurses who have kids but can't get the AM shift.

 

[32andBelow]

Those other careers do their normal jobs on the mids. If we take brand new FPLs and stick them on mids, they are guaranteed to have problems when they are able to bid days or swings. And that's not saying anything about the recruiting and retention problems it would cause.

Then you can have a schedule that rotates but now every day. It could rotate every week or every month or every quarter. I’m not necessarily advocating for any of these ideas. But the we don’t have staffing for straight shifts is nonsense argument.

 

[TangoBearFox]

Then you can have a schedule that rotates but now every day. It could rotate every week or every month or every quarter. I’m not necessarily advocating for any of these ideas. But the we don’t have staffing for straight shifts is nonsense argument.

If the FAA was serious about safety (they're not) then we would be on straight shifts and then we could rotate like you said once a week or month whatever each facility negotiates.

 

[DankVectorz]

If the FAA was serious about safety (they're not) then we would be on straight shifts and then we could rotate like you said once a week or month whatever each facility negotiates.

You can do that already. Your local negotiates that with your facility management. I’ve literally never worked anything but alternating weeks of days/swings in my 10 years in the agency.

 

[ManBearPig]

You can do that already. Your local negotiates that with your facility management. I’ve literally never worked anything but alternating weeks of days/swings in my 10 years in the agency.

I think you are a large TRACON?

I have been trying to run a BWS that works running rotating straights, but it just doesn't work at most places. If you have a solution, plllleeeeeeeaaaaaasssse send it to me.

 

[32andBelow]

You can do that already. Your local negotiates that with your facility management. I’ve literally never worked anything but alternating weeks of days/swings in my 10 years in the agency.

In theory yes. But getting everyone to agree is hard.

 

[DankVectorz]

In theory yes. But getting everyone to agree is hard.

Yeah I know not every facility would want it, hell we have 1 area that runs the rattler, but just saying there’s nothing the FAA is doing to MAKE people be on the rattler rather than alternating. Other than staffing issues of course.

 

[RalphBeast]

Yeah I know not every facility would want it, hell we have 1 area that runs the rattler, but just saying there’s nothing the FAA is doing to MAKE people be on the rattler rather than alternating. Other than staffing issues of course.

A huge number of controllers are pro rattler IME. Everyone is all gung ho ready switch to straight days/swings/mids until they realize they would need to give up their free, too-good-to-be-true "three day weekend"(TM).

 

[32andBelow]

Yeah I know not every facility would want it, hell we have 1 area that runs the rattler, but just saying there’s nothing the FAA is doing to MAKE people be on the rattler rather than alternating. Other than staffing issues of course.

Whoever’s fault it is. I am currently forced to work the rattler

 

[Nothanks]

Whoever’s fault it is. I am currently forced to work the rattler

Become facrep and neg. A different BWS MOU. It’s that easy

 

[ManBearPig]

Become facrep and neg. A different BWS MOU. It’s that easy

Suuuuuuper easy. Literally no one will complain about your decisions ever. It's great.

 

[Nothanks]

Suuuuuuper easy. Literally no one will complain about your decisions ever. It's great.

Yea it’s almost like you wouldn’t need to go on .65 because you’d have your own at your facility to deal with

 

[TangoBearFox]

You can do that already. Your local negotiates that with your facility management. I’ve literally never worked anything but alternating weeks of days/swings in my 10 years in the agency.

Yes, I know you can do it now (good luck) at most facilities. What im saying is if the FAA tried to impose anything which they keep trying then that schedule is the lowest of the lowest hanging fruit for fatigue mitigation.