Terminal Class pass rate

[Sean Caldwell]

Apparently the main cause is not being able to control nerves according to a couple students from the recent graduating class.

 

[takefootoff]

Didn't hear any promising news coming from the class currently taking their evals

 

[Super Salt]

Didn't hear any promising news coming from the class currently taking their evals

Promising as in a decent amount of folks passing?

 

[breakaway2000]

They did release stats for 2017 up to this point and they are awful.
Enroute - 46%
Terminal - 50%

 

[ajmezz]

Damn that's sad.

 

[Move78]

Report from NiW as an explanation for horrible academy performance was because they offered positions based on ATSAT performance and they're approaching to floor of "passed" applicants. Read a few 'bottom of the barrel' theories on here and it seems like they're true. Maybe they raise the bar after this.

 

[CF]

I have heard others say that the problems and the grading are harder. Trying to convince myself the "bottom of the barrel" theory is right though haha.

 

[ATOH]

The results were fine the last couple years with OTS hiring. They have to have done something recently with the scoring/evaluations

 

[Stinger]

I have heard others say that the problems and the grading are harder. Trying to convince myself the "bottom of the barrel" theory is right though haha.

It's been the same PA/PV problems for years. There should be no surprises for someone taking a PA unless you create a situation yourself.
RWY 16 departures, wake turbulence separation, VFR fast aircraft mixing with slower ones on 28L, vehicle/aircraft reposition, pattern traffic, traffic calls....I mean, it's all the same. If anything, it's gotten easier from the PV days. We used to have to keep the wake turbulence notepad and issue all traffic calls off frequency. So while you kept talking about wake turbulence advisories and a traffic call, you had to verify that the aircraft you just talked to reads back your instruction correctly. Now it's all done on frequency.

The results were fine the last couple years with OTS hiring. They have to have done something recently with the scoring/evaluations

I'd be surprised if that's the case, if anything the graders have gotten more consistent.
Most likely, I imagine there being two specific things that have caused lower pass rates the last year:
1. Almost all the previous-experience new-hires are going straight to the facility,
2. Lower percentage of new-hires from the good CTI schools (UND, Riddle, Beaver, etc.),
Both groups are no longer around in significant numbers to prop up the passing average.

The en-route program has had the same pass rate for a long time because there is almost no one with prior center experience going through the Academy, and the CTI schools were more concentrated on the terminal program. Result there was not much of an advantage over an OTS hire.

 

[CF]

Hearing the final count was 5 passed out of 16. Apparently this class started with 18 in basics so they must have somehow lost 2 along the way if thats true.

 

[breakaway2000]

2. Lower percentage of new-hires from the good CTI schools (UND, Riddle, Beaver, etc.),
Both groups are no longer around in significant numbers to prop up the passing average.

The en-route program has had the same pass rate for a long time because there is almost no one with prior center experience going through the Academy, and the CTI schools were more concentrated on the terminal program. Result there was not much of an advantage over an OTS hire.

This is probably the saddest aspect of it in my opinion. The FAA threw out millions funding these CTI schools and did not give them any core guidelines or guidance for how to train their students. This left a wide and I mean WIDE range in terms of the quality of education. Some CTI schools simply had book work, others spend a year + in Sims. For instance, the one I went to back in the day had a full semester of Tower Sim, Non Radar, and Radar sims. We worked the exact academy airspace. In it's hay day, there were multiple rounds of 'cuts' prior to even making it into the Sims. If you didn't pass a Sim class, you were done. In my eyes, this is how a CTI school should run. I would love to see the numbers broken down by CTI school from say 2009-2012. I'd expect to see a vast difference from top to bottom.

 

[Stinger]

I would love to see the numbers broken down by CTI school from say 2009-2012. I'd expect to see a vast difference from top to bottom.

I want to say there was some report that included those stats. Maybe the Barrier Analysis?

 

[Super Salt]

So if only 5 passed, does that automatically mean that the first 5 facilities on the "Air Traffic New Hire Placement List - Terminal" from KSN will get these few graduates? Basically SJU (2), PHF (1), ALO (1), and BIS (1)?

 

[ajmezz]

A friend of mine knows one of the graduates from that class and their list didn't include SJU. I think he said his friend is going to MLU though.

 

[Super Salt]

A friend of mine knows one of the graduates from that class and their list didn't include SJU. I think he said his friend is going to MLU though.

Hallelujah (if that's actually true)

 

[ajmezz]

Hallelujah (if that's actually true)

As of last night when he asked him that's what he was leaning towards so I'd say it's a good chance he heads your way.

 

[Move78]

A friend of mine knows one of the graduates from that class and their list didn't include SJU. I think he said his friend is going to MLU though.

I would assume its because the SJU people failed right? Those were set aside for specific students.

 

[Move78]

So if only 5 passed, does that automatically mean that the first 5 facilities on the "Air Traffic New Hire Placement List - Terminal" from KSN will get these few graduates? Basically SJU (2), PHF (1), ALO (1), and BIS (1)?

Also they do the mandatory selection at the top based on a % of the total list. So if the list gets cut down to 5 students there will be 10 choices and top 3 should be mandatory selections.

 

[ajmezz]

I would assume its because the SJU people failed right? Those were set aside for specific students.

Yeah I'm not sure but that's likely. This is the list that my buddy sent me.

 

[Move78]

Yeah I'm not sure but that's likely. This is the list that my buddy sent me.

ok my mistake, its a % of graduates not choices so if 5 passed then only 1 would be mandatory and the list will have 10 facilities on it. And thats just the OG list they get a week ahead of time so its no surprise SJU isn't on there. So based off this info there's no way to tell if the OCONUS student passed yet.