5 4/9 schedule AWS credit?

[VikerATC]

Can someone earn credit on their RDO if they are on a 5/4/9 schedule? Compressed Work schedule?

 

[FightingIrish2012]

Yes, but idiots will tell you no. Don’t listen to them.

 

[VikerATC]

Yes, but idiots will tell you no. Don’t listen to . I already knew that.

 

[ZO]

Federal Employees - Compressed Work Schedules

Compressed Work Schedules are fixed work schedules (e.g., employees may not vary starting and stopping times) that enable full-time employees to complete the basic 80-hour biweekly work requirement in less than 10 workdays.

www.opm.gov

I've always understood that you are ineligible to earn credit on a CWS. Maybe I'm one of the idiots and I'm willing to be proven wrong.

 

[FightingIrish2012]

It has to be on a RDO but you can do it.

 

[ZO]

It has to be on a RDO but you can do it.

OPM says otherwise, and in RT-1 the instructors also said otherwise. Interested to see where you're getting that from.

 

[ManBearPig]

Can not earn credit on a CWS. Article 34 Section 6 of the contract. Credit is pursuant to a flexible work schedule. No mention of a AWS/CWS.

Prove me wrong so I can go to a CWS next year.

 

[AnyTrafficPleaseAdvise]

There are people in my facility who earn credit on a 4 10s schedule on their RDOs.

 

[ManBearPig]

There are people in my facility who earn credit on a 4 10s schedule on their RDOs.

Because they are on a flexible work schedule, doing 4 10s. Not a CWS doing 4 10s.

 

[Termine]

Because they are on a flexible work schedule, doing 4 10s. Not a AWS doing 4 10s.

Eh? According to Section 5, "flexible work schedule" (5-8 but you're allowed to flex in) and "compressed work schedule" (5/4-9 or 4-10) are the two kinds of AWS. So both FWS and CWS are in fact flavors of AWS, compared to the "normal" schedule of 5-8s with no flex.

If someone doing 4-10 is allowed to earn credit, then someone doing 5/4-9 should also be allowed to earn credit. Or you can turn it around and say neither one can earn credit. But the contract treats those two compressed work schedules exactly the same.

IMO there's no reason Section 6 references "flexible work schedule" instead of the more general "alternate work schedule" but I would have to imagine there is a reason. Maybe not though. It looks like the "credit hours" section was added in the Slate Book, although the Red Book Article 45 Section 6 does mention "credit hour balances" so that's kind of strange. Maybe you can see if someone from the Slate Book negotiating team can be contacted and ask them if there was a reason it's written the way it is.

 

[ZO]

Eh? According to Section 5, "flexible work schedule" (5-8 but you're allowed to flex in) and "compressed work schedule" (5/4-9 or 4-10) are the two kinds of AWS. So both FWS and CWS are in fact flavors of AWS, compared to the "normal" schedule of 5-8s with no flex.

If someone doing 4-10 is allowed to earn credit, then someone doing 5/4-9 should also be allowed to earn credit. Or you can turn it around and say neither one can earn credit. But the contract treats those two compressed work schedules exactly the same.

They don't. There is a CWS 4-10, as well as an AWS 4-10. It's stupid but it's true. The latter you can earn credit on.

Edit: Also wanted to note that AWS is commonly misused. Every single controller works an AWS. Underneath that is flexible schedules, and CWS.

 

[Termine]

There is a CWS 4-10, as well as an AWS 4-10.

Okay, I think I maybe see what you're saying. In Article 48 Section 5b where it spells out how flexible schedules work, they say that you have core hours on up to 5 workdays and a minimum of 7 hours core time each workday. So you could create a flexible work schedule that has 9 core hours and 1 flex hour on only 4 workdays per week, and that's essentially the same as the CWS 4-10 but it's still a flexible schedule. Is that what you mean?

And if people are using that to get around the non-flex CWS spelled out in Section 5c, then why couldn't you similarly create a 5/4-9 FWS?

 

[Nothanks]

They don't. There is a CWS 4-10, as well as an AWS 4-10. It's stupid but it's true. The latter you can earn credit on.

Edit: Also wanted to note that AWS is commonly misused. Every single controller works an AWS. Underneath that is flexible schedules, and CWS.

👆🏼

 

[ZO]

Okay, I think I maybe see what you're saying. In Article 48 Section 5b where it spells out how flexible schedules work, they say that you have core hours on up to 5 workdays and a minimum of 7 hours core time each workday. So you could create a flexible work schedule that has 9 core hours and 1 flex hour on only 4 workdays per week, and that's essentially the same as the CWS 4-10 but it's still a flexible schedule. Is that what you mean?

And if people are using that to get around the non-flex CWS spelled out in Section 5c, then why couldn't you similarly create a 5/4-9 FWS?

A35 S5 b (1) describes Maxiflex-40. Essentially states that you need 40 hours in a work week to be considered FWS. 5/4/9 on the other hand is 80 hours in a PP, not 40 in a week.

Any schedule with 40 hours in a week would be approved for credit I believe. It's just that 4-10s is the only one that really makes sense. Edit - looks like (a) subsection nixes that.

 

[ManBearPig]

Eh? According to Section 5, "flexible work schedule" (5-8 but you're allowed to flex in) and "compressed work schedule" (5/4-9 or 4-10) are the two kinds of AWS. So both FWS and CWS are in fact flavors of AWS, compared to the "normal" schedule of 5-8s with no flex.

If someone doing 4-10 is allowed to earn credit, then someone doing 5/4-9 should also be allowed to earn credit. Or you can turn it around and say neither one can earn credit. But the contract treats those two compressed work schedules exactly the same.

IMO there's no reason Section 6 references "flexible work schedule" instead of the more general "alternate work schedule" but I would have to imagine there is a reason. Maybe not though. It looks like the "credit hours" section was added in the Slate Book, although the Red Book Article 45 Section 6 does mention "credit hour balances" so that's kind of strange. Maybe you can see if someone from the Slate Book negotiating team can be contacted and ask them if there was a reason it's written the way it is.

Meant CWS where I put AWS, was in a hurry.

 

[J-one-s]

Do y'all really have supes that won't approve credit because of this? Is there a more important reason why they won't approve it, besides "it says in the contract?"

 

[ZO]

Do y'all really have supes that won't approve credit because of this? Is there a more important reason why they won't approve it, besides "it says in the contract?"

Mainly because it's against the labor law. Not just the contract. I personally don't say shit if someone is earning credit on a CWS, but I know it's against the law lol. Something a rep can never argue for.

 

[Termine]

A35 S5 b (1) describes Maxiflex-40. Essentially states that you need 40 hours in a work week to be considered FWS.

That's what I was talking about, S5b(1)(a) and (b). I feel like if management wanted to they could argue that it doesn't line up with the intent of the section, but heck if people are getting sups to approve earning credit then why not.

5/4/9 on the other hand is 80 hours in a PP, not 40 in a week.

That does make sense, thanks.

 

[bravounite33]

You get around all this by just having all your schedules be AWS instead of CWS. It's literally just a single letter difference in your MOU that changes everything when it comes to labor law. All reps are taught this at RT1 class and prior to MOU negotiations each year (at least we were).

Edit: I mean this more for the 4-10 schedule. I think there are still facilities out there that run it as a CWS instead of AWS. There is zero benefit to running it as a CWS and should be switched to AWS.

 

[Phillytroll69]

You get around all this by just having all your schedules be AWS instead of CWS. It's literally just a single letter difference in your MOU that changes everything when it comes to labor law. All reps are taught this at RT1 class and prior to MOU negotiations each year (at least we were).

Edit: I mean this more for the 4-10 schedule. I think there are still facilities out there that run it as a CWS instead of AWS. There is zero benefit to running it as a CWS and should be switched to AWS.

All of ours are aws...

But yeah I seriously don't get the difference legally or whatever. (Cws vs aws)

Reading Federal Employees - Compressed Work Schedules