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32andBelow

Legendary Member
Messages
6,572
ERAM tells you if solutions work but it doesn’t recognize every problem. EDST doesn’t probe for lots of things that cause A1 mistakes in OKC and that the R-side will not mention to you either.
What besides holding?

I’m just saying people make it sound like you need to learn this crazy skill but really you just need to learn how to manage a bunch of easy administrative tasks to assist the r side
 

L3rad5chmidt

Member
FAA
Messages
4
Facility
ZLC Salt Lake City Center
What besides holding?

I’m just saying people make it sound like you need to learn this crazy skill but really you just need to learn how to manage a bunch of easy administrative tasks to assist the r side
Departures, Arrivals, and requests for lower/higher aren’t probed for traffic on EDST properly to avoid collisions and are easy ways to get multiple -16s at the academy. I agree the skills needed aren’t crazy but those are situations where you aren’t just sat down doing simple administrative tasks are can easily lose lots of points.
 

32andBelow

Legendary Member
Messages
6,572
Departures, Arrivals, and requests for lower/higher aren’t probed for traffic on EDST properly to avoid collisions and are easy ways to get multiple -16s at the academy. I agree the skills needed aren’t crazy but those are situations where you aren’t just sat down doing simple administrative tasks are can easily lose lots of points.
The academy doesn’t make you launch guys to tte highest available altitude.

The d side doesn’t clear approaches in the lab

Yep i had a problem where 2 data blocks perfectly overlapped where it looked like one. The higher guy request lower and the Eram trial plan didnt show red. So i decended him and sure enough 16 points were lost.
you didn’t see that there were 2 tags right on top of each other?
 

MagioX1

Trusted Contributor
Messages
210
you didn’t see that there were 2 tags right on top of each other?
Nah. It was like the busiest time in the problem where there were like 6 data tags and blocks right next to each other. Didnt noticed these 2 were overlapping and heading in exactly the same direction at exactly the same speed.
 

Roo617

Member
Messages
75
What makes ZDV sought after? I get Colorado is a beautiful place to live but its expensive as hell. What else is good about it?
In my opinion it’s a great state, but level 10 pay for cost of living is not worth it, if anything check out and transfer to Denver tracon and make level 12 money
 
I had one of the evaluators that are known to be tough on my first run and I APREQ’ed a climb with JAN approach 2 miles outside their boundary (has to be done before they get within 2.5 miles of their boundary) and my evaluator moved my hand from the vector line tool so he could display the 2.5 mile boundary markers and obviously took the 16 points off for it. My second evaluator gave me my points back for a late point out 🤷🏼‍♀️ Always do everything even if it’s late, because you never know what type of evaluator you have
If they have to be more than 2.5 miles and he was 2 miles, how is that an error?! He should take off the 16 points right????
 

KiloZulu

Trusted Contributor
Messages
253
If they have to be more than 2.5 miles and he was 2 miles, how is that an error?! He should take off the 16 points right????
It has to be done before the plane is within 2.5 miles, and she's saying her plane was was not.

Incidentally, I can't think of a faster way to screw up someone taking an eval than to interrupt their flow in order to prove to them that you're taking off 16 points.
 

ninerfour

Forum Sage
Messages
518
It has to be done before the plane is within 2.5 miles, and she's saying her plane was was not.

Incidentally, I can't think of a faster way to screw up someone taking an eval than to interrupt their flow in order to prove to them that you're taking off 16 points.
Yupppp it was soul crushing when he did that. He was brutal. He sat basically between my R-side and I during the eval instead of behind us so anytime he’d write down a mistake, I could literally see him writing since he was in line with my view of the scope. There’s also another evaluator who will whip out a ruler and hold it to the radar scope to measure your mileages that you give to see if he should take off points too. Some are brutal and some are actually so nice and laid back. Point being, you don’t know what type of evaluator you’re going to get, so always do things even if you’re late on them.
 
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WX_CHASR

Member
Messages
20
I think it does students a disservice by letting them know which evaluators are “tough”. At least two of my classmates panicked because they got that guy and ended up failing. I had him and by 20 minutes in he was basically reclined behind me and I had to make almost a full 180 turn to figure out where he was when it was time to say something.

If you’re going down the tubes or sound like it they will all be up in your business. If you know what you’re doing then you won’t have any problems.
 
It has to be done before the plane is within 2.5 miles, and she's saying her plane was was not.

Incidentally, I can't think of a faster way to screw up someone taking an eval than to interrupt their flow in order to prove to them that you're taking off 16 points.
But the evaluator said the plane was 2 miles so I don’t see how that wouldn’t be an error. That sucks though how it’s so little but so many points

I do see how an evaluator stepping in to push buttons or bring out a ruler can ruin your momentum though. That sucks.

Ninerfour, I know you said earlier your evaluators were tough. How was your third evaluator?? It seems like first was rude but second guy seemed alright
 

ninerfour

Forum Sage
Messages
518
I think it does students a disservice by letting them know which evaluators are “tough”. At least two of my classmates panicked because they got that guy and ended up failing. I had him and by 20 minutes in he was basically reclined behind me and I had to make almost a full 180 turn to figure out where he was when it was time to say something.

If you’re going down the tubes or sound like it they will all be up in your business. If you know what you’re doing then you won’t have any problems.
With that guy, I ran a clean problem the first 25 minutes and he was right there the whole time. I didn’t make the APREQ mistake until 25 minutes into my problem. I wasn’t going down the tubes and he was still right there from the beginning.

But yeah, I HATED that people would talk about evaluators too. I agree, it does a disservice to people. I’ve also seen multiple people panic when they got certain evaluators. There’s three evaluators that we consistently heard about the whole time we were there.
 

DoubleTwo

Member
Messages
26
Departures, Arrivals, and requests for lower/higher aren’t probed for traffic on EDST properly to avoid collisions and are easy ways to get multiple -16s at the academy. I agree the skills needed aren’t crazy but those are situations where you aren’t just sat down doing simple administrative tasks are can easily lose lots of points.
Every task can’t be completely mindless .
Half the time when someone requests lower or higher (if it’s the pilot) you don’t have to look for traffic Either.
Arrivals are probed correctly unless they’re Nordo or holding, you can launch every departure except one type to 3 or 4 so you just have to not have a guy at 3-5.
If anyone came to just sit down and do simple administrative tasks they’re in the wrong place.
 

LayLow

Member
Messages
3
A word of advice to people going through the academy. In terms of radar stuff to learn it’s not about learning stuff just for the sake of learning it. You need to understand why you are doing it cause on evals the stuff you’ve seen in practice problems happen in different places on the scope. The evals are legitimately not hard they are no harder than any practice problems honestly and for those worrying about who has which evaluator get over yourself, every person at the academy knows who the tough graders are. If you are gonna look for an excuse why you failed that’s on you. Put in some hard work and sacrifice for three months and you’ll be at a facility, if you are going to OKC to get down in the sheets with someone think again, the academy is a mind game the FAA wants to play.

On top of that as my name states “Lay Low” no one there needs to be running around thinking they are a hot shot or anything. You are nothing at the academy this is a three month extended job interview. I didn’t feel comfortable until I heard my final radar eval score and I made it out of that place.

People complaining about people talking about evaluators come on it’s black and white you either get it or you don’t. No need to blame the evaluator for the “low”scores people get when there are just as many “high” scores.
 

Houston713

Member
Messages
69
A word of advice to people going through the academy. In terms of radar stuff to learn it’s not about learning stuff just for the sake of learning it. You need to understand why you are doing it cause on evals the stuff you’ve seen in practice problems happen in different places on the scope. The evals are legitimately not hard they are no harder than any practice problems honestly and for those worrying about who has which evaluator get over yourself, every person at the academy knows who the tough graders are. If you are gonna look for an excuse why you failed that’s on you. Put in some hard work and sacrifice for three months and you’ll be at a facility, if you are going to OKC to get down in the sheets with someone think again, the academy is a mind game the FAA wants to play.

On top of that as my name states “Lay Low” no one there needs to be running around thinking they are a hot shot or anything. You are nothing at the academy this is a three month extended job interview. I didn’t feel comfortable until I heard my final radar eval score and I made it out of that place.

People complaining about people talking about evaluators come on it’s black and white you either get it or you don’t. No need to blame the evaluator for the “low”scores people get when there are just as many “high” scores.
That's all well and good but there's two specific evaluators that are indeed tough and will take points for anything they don't like.
 

LayLow

Member
Messages
3
That's all well and good but there's two specific evaluators that are indeed tough and will take points for anything they don't like.
Why does anyone care about the person behind you? If you can’t block out the “noise” and “distractions” you aren’t gonna work in this profession. Every person who goes through the academy is given the same opportunity you either pass or fail. If you pass good on you if you fail you have no one to blame but yourself. It’s not the evaluators fault you lose points
 
Why does anyone care about the person behind you? If you can’t block out the “noise” and “distractions” you aren’t gonna work in this profession. Every person who goes through the academy is given the same opportunity you either pass or fail. If you pass good on you if you fail you have no one to blame but yourself. It’s not the evaluators fault you lose points
The evaluators aren’t trying to distract you right? And if you see them does it really matter? When you run the practice problems I thought the teacher would be next to you and you’d be seeing them so…. Idk.

I’m hopefully going to be there next year and can really see how I do. There’s lots of good info in this thread, I’m just not the type of person to blame everyone for my mistakes and not face the reality if it’s my fault
 

flypilot

Trusted Contributor
Messages
219
The evaluators aren’t trying to distract you right? And if you see them does it really matter? When you run the practice problems I thought the teacher would be next to you and you’d be seeing them so…. Idk.

I’m hopefully going to be there next year and can really see how I do. There’s lots of good info in this thread, I’m just not the type of person to blame everyone for my mistakes and not face the reality if it’s my fault
They aren’t actively distracting you but them being there and knowing that they decide whether you get a 6 figure job or not is a distraction on its own. Some people have a hard time not focusing on them and any focus you put on them is focus you’re taking away from running the problems.

As far as the practice problems your main instructors won’t be with you every single practice run but they’ll be there for some. The ones where they’re not with you though you’ll have other instructors still but they won’t be your primary
 
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