Facility Downgrades / Upgrades

ajmezz said:

Does anyone even know how the TCI is calculated? I was looking at my facilities info last night and even though the number of ops has increased each month, the TCI has actually dropped, which doesn’t make sense. I understand the formula is in the contract but looking for a dumbed down explanation if possible.

If you are looking at daily traffic count, you're looking at useless information. TCI goes off of hourly count. Busiest 1xxx hours within a consecutive 12 month period is your TCI (I can't remember the number but it's clearly stated in the cba). So it's not uncommon to see your daily traffic count go up, but if those planes aren't flying during your busiest hour or second busiest hour of the day then it's irrelevant because it doesn't count for anything. Not sure if this is what you are seeing at your facility, but it's a very likely and common scenario.

FightingIrish2012 said:

Probably zero, there is a greater chance it absorbs surrounding radars as part of a 804 if they ever have the balls to do those again.

804s are definitely the Agency’s long term plan

Spaceforce said:

It’s in the contract like you said. It’s not hard to understand.

You may have increased ops but air carriers could have dropped and lowered your numbers. 4 categories. Carrier/military/GA/taxi. GA and taxi count together and you get more count for ifr. Carrier is worth more. Military is added to the lowest between carrier and ga/taxi. More ifr traffic is will get you higher TCI.

Air carriers count the same as other IFRs. More air carriers can either increase or decrease your mix add on depending on how your facility’s mix is. If your facility works a lot of commercial traffic air carriers will count for less

Move78 said:

804s are definitely the Agency’s long term plan

? won't allow any during his reign.

Smitty said:

? won't allow any during his reign.

It’s a good thing Santa and the NEA board stopped fighting for anything, or else yeah, 804’s could be banned.

Spaceforce said:

JFK is 11 because it is. When you dive into the TCI, JFK EWR and LGA have a stipulation in it that makes them what they are (NATCA mafia) I forgot the name of it but I'll get it one day. It has something to do with JFK counting all of LGA's traffic and EWR traffic as their own. and vice versa.

JFK has been below the Level 11 cutoff since 2011 so something is going on.

From the complexity setting glossary

Metropolitan Tower Complex – Two (2) or more airport traffic control terminals that provide traffic advisories, spacing, sequencing, and separation services to VFR and IFR aircraft operating in Class B airspace within the vicinity of the airport using a combination of radar and direct observations. These airport traffic control terminals must serve separate Large Hub Airports located in a major metropolitan area and independently be within one (1) facility pay level of each other. Additionally, each airport must be located within fifteen (15) nautical miles (center of airport to center of airport), and have traffic flows that have to be closely coordinated between facilities such that the operational configuration of one (1) airport affects the operational configuration of the other(s).

Traffic Count Index (TCI) – A combined measure of the complexity of the air traffic and the sustained traffic index at each facility. It is the measure used to set facility pay levels. For a Metropolitan Tower Complex, the Traffic Count Index for each airport traffic control terminal facility is calculated independently, and the pay level of the Complex is set based on the highest independently calculated TCI.

JFK is is nine miles from LGA, and LGA is fourteen miles from EWR. However JFK is eighteen miles from EWR. Additionally I know that LGA/JFK runway selection are heavily dependent on each other but I don't know if EWR is affected as much. I would assume yes, though.

So provided JFK and LGA are independently calculated to be within one FPL of each other, each facility's FPL is set to the higher one. Most likely this is true for EWR and LGA as well. For example, this could be true:

• EWR TCI is 10.
• LGA TCI is 11.
• JFK TCI is 10.
• Because EWR is a "metro tower complex" with LGA, and because EWR is within one level of LGA, EWR is set to an 11.
• Because JFK is a "metro tower complex" with LGA, and because JFK is within one level of LGA, JFK is set to an 11.

Now in the (made-up example) case where EWR is 11, LGA is 10, and JFK is 9, it shouldn't be true that JFK would commutatively be set to match EWR's 11, because EWR and JFK are too far apart to be considered part of the same metro tower complex. Instead JFK should be set to match LGA's independently calculated 10, while LGA would be set to 11 to match EWR. But I would not at all be surprised to hear that they just lump all three together and call it a day.

I'm not at work to check the real TCIs but if anyone is I'd be interested to see where they fall.

Termine said:

From the complexity setting glossary

JFK is is nine miles from LGA, and LGA is fourteen miles from EWR. However JFK is eighteen miles from EWR. Additionally I know that LGA/JFK runway selection are heavily dependent on each other but I don't know if EWR is affected as much. I would assume yes, though.

So provided JFK and LGA are independently calculated to be within one FPL of each other, each facility's FPL is set to the higher one. Most likely this is true for EWR and LGA as well. For example, this could be true:

• EWR TCI is 10.
• LGA TCI is 11.
• JFK TCI is 10.
• Because EWR is a "metro tower complex" with LGA, and because EWR is within one level of LGA, EWR is set to an 11.
• Because JFK is a "metro tower complex" with LGA, and because JFK is within one level of LGA, JFK is set to an 11.

Now in the (made-up example) case where EWR is 11, LGA is 10, and JFK is 9, it shouldn't be true that JFK would commutatively be set to match EWR's 11, because EWR and JFK are too far apart to be considered part of the same metro tower complex. Instead JFK should be set to match LGA's independently calculated 10, while LGA would be set to 11 to match EWR. But I would not at all be surprised to hear that they just lump all three together and call it a day.

I'm not at work to check the real TCIs but if anyone is I'd be interested to see where they fall.

June 2022 numbers:

EWR - 327.86 (FPL-10) (24 months below buffer)
LGA - 300.63 (FPL-10) (27 months below buffer)
JFK - 304.01 (FPL-10) (133 months below buffer)

You could argue that EWR and LGA are only below since the start of the pandemic and their “normal” numbers are closer to Level 11, but Kennedy is solidly under that.

redsphanatic said:

June 2022 numbers:

EWR - 327.86 (FPL-10) (24 months below buffer)
LGA - 300.63 (FPL-10) (27 months below buffer)
JFK - 304.01 (FPL-10) (133 months below buffer)

You could argue that EWR and LGA are only below since the start of the pandemic and their “normal” numbers are closer to Level 11, but Kennedy is solidly under that.

If it’s such a scam, then maybe we should all transfer there, right? Easy money, no?

Why are do people want facilities downgraded? Seems odd.

WavesAndClouds said:

Why are do people want facilities downgraded? Seems odd.

Nobody wants facilities downgraded. We're just frustrated that our numbers have been consistently higher and we're not seeing a raise.

ConvergingCourses said:

If it’s such a scam, then maybe we should all transfer there, right? Easy money, no?

I'm at ZNY (level 12 so we work the real traffic). I'd transfer in a heartbeat if I could. Tower is cake

Pot_Stirrer said:

I'm at ZNY (level 12 so we work the real traffic). I'd transfer in a heartbeat if I could. Tower is cake

Sups don’t work traffic you little sneaker you… nice try

Pot_Stirrer said:

I'm at ZNY (level 12 so we work the real traffic). I'd transfer in a heartbeat if I could. Tower is cake

You guys literally just shut off your airspace and all aircraft get routed through ZOB, ZBW, and ZDC. Every other day J6, J48, J80, and Q75 are closed or have excessive in trail requirements.

FredSmoot said:

You guys literally just shut off your airspace and all aircraft get routed through ZOB, ZBW, and ZDC. Every other day J6, J48, J80, and Q75 are closed or have excessive in trail requirements.

Nobody shuts airspace off. Airways get closed when there's a cell right on top of it because departure and arrival routes are 8 miles apart opposite direction and there's no room to deviate.

abc1234 said:

Nobody shuts airspace off. Airways get closed when there's a cell right on top of it because departure and arrival routes are 8 miles apart opposite direction and there's no room to deviate.

“Omg a cell of moderate 10 miles in diameter in East Texas sector…Everyone must be routed down the coast where there is a 40 mile cell of extreme…”

Pot_Stirrer said:

I'm at ZNY (level 12 so we work the real traffic). I'd transfer in a heartbeat if I could. Tower is cake

Centers only exist to give pilots someone to talk to between real controllers.

Pot_Stirrer said:

I'm at ZNY (level 12 so we work the real traffic). I'd transfer in a heartbeat if I could. Tower is cake

I was being sarcastic ?. Thought I gave that away.

WavesAndClouds said:

Why are do people want facilities downgraded? Seems odd.

Not part of this fight, but just to be a devil’s advocate: if they’re staffing is inflated more than it needs to be, a downgrade could lead to their staffing numbers being cut and those numbers given to facilities elsewhere that actually need additional staffing.

Homsar said:

Not part of this fight, but just to be a devil’s advocate: if they’re staffing is inflated more than it needs to be, a downgrade could lead to their staffing numbers being cut and those numbers given to facilities elsewhere that actually need additional staffing.

THIS

Homsar said:

Not part of this fight, but just to be a devil’s advocate: if they’re staffing is inflated more than it needs to be, a downgrade could lead to their staffing numbers being cut and those numbers given to facilities elsewhere that actually need additional staffing.

Problem is you would be overstaffed and still not get picked up anywhere and now you getting less pay