Serious Fatigue Memo 5/3/2024

[RegisteredUser]

That does sound like the stupidest shit ever. Gimme the rattler on W/T over that shit.

It’s not. Don’t be so dramatic.

The rattler literally kill’s you, so it’s clearly the stupidest shit ever.

 

[Soul_Controller]

It’s not. Don’t be so dramatic.

The rattler literally kill’s you, so it’s clearly the stupidest shit ever.

Working the mid is what kills you. The rattler just has the added joy of ensuring you don't get enough sleep before the mid, even if you try.

 

[CoffeeIV]

Working the mid is what kills you. The rattler just has the added joy of ensuring you don't get enough sleep before the mid, even if you try.

Yep. Plenty of studies have shown working overnight is terrible for you and will likely kill you. No one wants to get their panties in a bunch about that, but god forbid they get an hour less of sleep on the quick turn.

 

[ATC Zero]

We could very easily wind up with some first day mid rattler

I saw some ideas about that, any shift that would start before midnight as first day back wouldn’t that prevent any OT on the one full day off? Can’t work more than 6 days.

 

[32andBelow]

I saw some ideas about that, any shift that would start before midnight as first day back wouldn’t that prevent any OT on the one full day off? Can’t work more than 6 days.

They just assign it based on the list. They don’t care whose name is on it that day.

 

[ATCJoe85]

I saw some ideas about that, any shift that would start before midnight as first day back wouldn’t that prevent any OT on the one full day off? Can’t work more than 6 days.

I think it's a 30 hour requirement per week. I.E, if your first day back is Monday, and it's a mid, that starts Sunday night at 10. Doesn't count as working Sunday though. You have to have 30 hours consecutive off in a week, so you you wouldn't be able to work past 4 P.M on Saturday.

So a hypothetical schedule: Arrive Sunday at 10 P.M, off at 6 Monday. Return 4 to midnight Tuesday, 2 to 10 Wednesday, 10-6 Thursday, 6-2 Friday, and 8-4 Saturday.
Game. Fucking. Over.

 

[Spoony90]

I think it's a 30 hour requirement per week. I.E, if your first day back is Monday, and it's a mid, that starts Sunday night at 10. Doesn't count as working Sunday though. You have to have 30 hours consecutive off in a week, so you you wouldn't be able to work past 4 P.M on Saturday.

So a hypothetical schedule: Arrive Sunday at 10 P.M, off at 6 Monday. Return 4 to midnight Tuesday, 2 to 10 Wednesday, 10-6 Thursday, 6-2 Friday, and 8-4 Saturday.
Game. Fucking. Over.

That schedule can suck a giant bag of old wrinkly dicks

 

[Nothanks]

That schedule can suck a giant bag of old wrinkly dicks

100%….. good luck staffing the nas with something like that

 

[Soul_Controller]

I think it's a 30 hour requirement per week. I.E, if your first day back is Monday, and it's a mid, that starts Sunday night at 10. Doesn't count as working Sunday though. You have to have 30 hours consecutive off in a week, so you you wouldn't be able to work past 4 P.M on Saturday.

So a hypothetical schedule: Arrive Sunday at 10 P.M, off at 6 Monday. Return 4 to midnight Tuesday, 2 to 10 Wednesday, 10-6 Thursday, 6-2 Friday, and 8-4 Saturday.
Game. Fucking. Over.

I'm honestly not sure how the 30 hour thing works because I don't think we ever followed it, but you would have over 30 hours off between the mid and Tuesday in that schedule.

Although in the clockwise reverse rattler, you would go mid-day-day-eve-eve.

 

[Spoony90]

100%….. good luck staffing the nas with something like that

I bet a lot of eligible people retire and some others quit.

 

[FightingIrish2012]

I bet a lot of eligible people retire and some others quit.

Only 700 people are eligible to retire, but within 5 years it will be 3,000 with about 500 more becoming eligible each year after that. That is when the system will finally collapse if things are not completely different by then.

 

[ATCJoe85]

That is when the system will finally collapse if things are not completely different by then.

We would be so lucky. I think they'll find shitty bandaids to keep it going.
I'd love to see the whole thing burn...

 

[GulfCharlie]

We would be so lucky. I think they'll find shitty bandaids to keep it going.
I'd love to see the whole thing burn...

I am making this my avatar on Teams...

 

[Logical_Mongoose]

Only 700 people are eligible to retire, but within 5 years it will be 3,000 with about 500 more becoming eligible each year after that. That is when the system will finally collapse if things are not completely different by then.

I think it depends on where and how many of those eligible controllers retire. If 400+ of the 700 dip and most are Core 30, then that Jenga tower will start to topple next year when there will be staffing triggers left and right 6 months into the new schedule when even the OT scavengers get overworked and stop answering their phones. And if CRWG blocks NCEPT transfers then those Core 30 won't even be able to refresh their staffing numbers with the Level 4-6 jumpers.

 

[Wizard]

I think it depends on where and how many of those eligible controllers retire. If 400+ of the 700 dip and most are Core 30, then that Jenga tower will start to topple next year when there will be staffing triggers left and right 6 months into the new schedule when even the OT scavengers get overworked and stop answering their phones. And if CRWG blocks NCEPT transfers then those Core 30 won't even be able to refresh their staffing numbers with the Level 4-6 jumpers.

The 4-6 towers are going to be the only ones able to release. It’s the mid level facilities nobody is going to ERR too that will suffer. Like it already is.

 

[GulfBravoPapa]

Has anyone actually come up with a schedule for a 24 hour facility that doesn't involve a reverse rattler or a week of mids?

 

[ManBearPig]

Has anyone actually come up with a schedule for a 24 hour facility that doesn't involve a reverse rattler or a week of mids?

Yes.......

But it involves 3 person mids and scheduled OT everyday.

So, not really. Neither has anyone else I've talked to.

 

[Mike Kilo]

Yes.......

But it involves 3 person mids and scheduled OT everyday.

So, not really. Neither has anyone else I've talked to.

Going from a 2 man mid to a 3 man mid?

 

[ManBearPig]

Going from a 2 man mid to a 3 man mid?

Yeah... agency won't want that though

 

[N737ER]

If I remember the rules, doing it with only 8hr shifts is challenging so you'd have to manipulate the number of hours each day, something like:
Day 1 - 1415-0015 (10hr) NF to cover mid overlap
Day 2 - 1400-2200 (8hr) or 1300-2100
Day 3 - 0800-1600 (8hr) or 0700-1500
Day 4 - 0600-1200 (6hr)
Day 5 - 0000-0800 (8hr)