In light of the fatigue memo we should go to 24 hour shifts similar to Federal Fight Fighters...

[Periculant]

In light of the fatigue memo we should go to 24 hour shifts similar to Federal Fight Fighters. We should run our shifts not exactly like theirs but similar.

8 hour shift - 8 hour shift - 24 hour shift

The 24 hour shift would be 6AM to Noon and then your are required to rest from Noon to Midnight and you take position again from Midnight to 6AM in the morning.


The 24 hour shift already exists in the federal government with Fire fighters (at a minimum) so the precedent it there and on top of that they sleep during that 24 hour shift.

 

[32andBelow]

In light of the fatigue memo we should go to 24 hour shifts similar to Federal Fight Fighters. We should run our shifts not exactly like theirs but similar.

8 hour shift - 8 hour shift - 24 hour shift

The 24 hour shift would be 6AM to Noon and then your are required to rest from Noon to Midnight and you take position again from Midnight to 6AM in the morning.


The 24 hour shift already exists in the federal government with Fire fighters (at a minimum) so the precedent it there and on top of that they sleep during that 24 hour shift.

Do I have to sleep in the dirty break room?

 

[Periculant]

Do I have to sleep in the dirty break room?

lol would you care?

Never the less that should be negotiated at the national level

 

[ClearanceClarence]

That’d be worse than the damn rattler.

Being a prisoner in these shit hole facilities for 24 hours at a time isn’t going to help anyone’s work/life balance, or decrease fatigue. Probably the opposite. Even if you’re “on break” for 12 hours. It wouldn’t make sense for the agency either. If you’re only available for two 6-hour blocks during the 24 hours, you’re probably only on position for 4 during each. You think the agency is going to want to pay people for 24 hours when they’d be getting 8-9 hours of ToP out of that timeframe? This might be the dumbest idea I’ve heard with all this.

 

[32andBelow]

lol would you care?

Never the less that should be negotiated at the national level

Just sounds mind numbing when my real bed is down the road

 

[Periculant]

That’d be worse than the damn rattler.

Being a prisoner in these shit hole facilities for 24 hours at a time isn’t going to help anyone’s work/life balance, or decrease fatigue. Probably the opposite. Even if you’re “on break” for 12 hours. It wouldn’t make sense for the agency either. If you’re only available for two 6-hour blocks during the 24 hours, you’re probably only on position for 4 during each. You think the agency is going to want to pay people for 24 hours when they’d be getting 8-9 hours of ToP out of that timeframe? This might be the dumbest idea I’ve heard with all this.

So working a 0600-1400 then a 2200-0600 is better than a 0600-1200 (12 hours paid mandatory rest) then a 2400-0600 shift?

Get out of here shill

NATCA should be able to negotiate resting at home unless there is a pattern of abuse or lack of rest just like sick leave abuse.

 

[Phanatical]

The problem is that fire fighters aren’t subject to rest requirements. They get to sleep, sure, but when they get toned out they gotta roll.

 

[SolicitSVFR]

The problem is that fire fighters aren’t subject to rest requirements. They get to sleep, sure, but when they get toned out they gotta roll.

I think he’s talking about being paid to rest lol.

 

[Periculant]

The problem is that fire fighters aren’t subject to rest requirements. They get to sleep, sure, but when they get toned out they gotta roll.

Exactly, that is why it is similar and not identical.

We have rest requirements and thus if the agency is going to assign a duty then we should be on duty time to accomplish that duty.

 

[Periculant]

I think he’s talking about being paid to rest lol.

yes just like other professionals do. How can the agency tell us what we need to do on our time off? If they are going to mandate rest, we are preforming a duty, which should be on duty time.

 

[Phanatical]

NATCA should be able to negotiate resting at home unless there is a pattern of abuse or lack of rest just like sick leave abuse.

That’s all well and good if you live down the street but there are controllers out there that live 2 hours + from the facility. A change like this would require living quarters to be built on to every 24 hour facility complete with racks, showers, full kitchen, etc. Maybe even a day care for single parents? It just simply isn’t cost effective for starters.

 

[Golf delta]

This is a stupid topic, why would the FAA even consider paying us for our time off? They didn’t pay us before, now it’s a longer period so they’ll start paying us? Firemen get paid because they’re recallable if a major event happens. We are not.

 

[Periculant]

That’s all well and good if you live down the street but there are controllers out there that live 2 hours + from the facility. A change like this would require living quarters to be built on to every 24 hour facility complete with racks, showers, full kitchen, etc. Maybe even a day care for single parents? It just simply isn’t cost effective for starters.

So how do they do it now? many people work a morning shift now and then work a mid 8 hours later. If they can do that why would they not be able to work 6 hours and then have a 12 hour rest and another 6 hour shift?

 

[KiloZulu]

So how do they do it now? many people work a morning shift now and then work a mid 8 hours later. If they can do that why would they not be able to work 6 hours and then have a 12 hour rest and another 6 hour shift?

Because no one wants to spend 24 hours in an old, leaky building built 40 years ago, surrounded by their grumpy coworkers. Think about it. That's 8 hours of labor (generously) in a 24 hour period. No shot.

 

[Periculant]

Because no one wants to spend 24 hours in an old, leaky building built 40 years ago, surrounded by their grumpy coworkers. Think about it. That's 8 hours of labor (generously) in a 24 hour period. No shot.

Rest should be available at home...

This is a stupid topic, why would the FAA even consider paying us for our time off? They didn’t pay us before, now it’s a longer period so they’ll start paying us? Firemen get paid because they’re recallable if a major event happens. We are not.

The topic of the day is controller fatigue. It is literally in the news and Michael Whitaker wanted to make a splash out of it.

 

[Phanatical]

Firemen get paid because they’re recallable if a major event happens. We are not.

This is the driver here. Same for any other position that requires 24 hour watch (doctors, nurses, insert career field here)

 

[Periculant]

This is the driver here. Same for any other position that requires 24 hour watch (doctors, nurses, insert career field here)

My understanding for doctors and nurses is that they are not allowed to be directly responsible for patients after the first 12 hours of their 24 hour shift. They can look at chats or work the computer and such but they cannot under any circumstance be responsible for a patient.

We can be recallable during the 12 hour rest period for non-operational duties (Just like Doctors or nurses) but it would disqualify us from working the midnight to 6 shift and everything from that point on must be non-operational.

 

[Phanatical]

Just make us salaried and end the debate. That’s really what you want anyway it seems like.

 

[Nothanks]

This is never happening. Not even close. It’s a stupid debate. Just end it now

 

[ATCJoe85]

This is never happening. Not even close. It’s a stupid debate. Just end it now

To be fair, nobody's going to give us a meaningful raise, either, but we've been discussing it for ~2 years now.