hardship COS and travel days

[Wholelotta]

I recently got a hardship approved and my ATM and HR contact both dont seem to know if I get any travel days (3000 mile move) or COS due to the ERR being a hardship. Art 29 section 4 seems to say yes but the wording from the hardship art 99 section 3(H) "Permanent change of station (moving) expenses will not be paid by the Government." are making my ATM say otherwise. HR says its all up to my ATM. Could anyone give clarification on the matter?

 

[boots]

You get cos

 

[Mike Kilo]

You should be eligible for COS.

 

[Super Salt]

64 hours of Change of Station leave. You relocate on your own dime.

 

[Dousand24]

You’re entitled to COS. Hardshipped from Napa to FL 5 years ago and was able to get it.

 

[JackTBP]

I recently got a hardship approved and my ATM and HR contact both dont seem to know if I get any travel days (3000 mile move) or COS due to the ERR being a hardship. Art 29 section 4 seems to say yes but the wording from the hardship art 99 section 3(H) "Permanent change of station (moving) expenses will not be paid by the Government." are making my ATM say otherwise. HR says its all up to my ATM. Could anyone give clarification on the matter?

With all due respect, this appears to be a prime example of HR having no idea what they're talking about. Some HR folks know our CBA exists and apply it correctly, and others... don't. I guess the same goes for ATMs.

This time is not at the ATM's discretion to allow. Per the article you reference (Art 29 sec 4), "up to 64 hours of excused absence... shall be granted" and "employees may be required to provide justification for the use of this time." A hardship is absolutely a change in official post of duty, and your ATM citing Art 99 is not relevant here.

I suspect what gets ATM/HR confused is that some BUEs seem to demand this time and overlook the "justification" piece in the article. If a BUE goes "give me tomorrow off for COS" and refuses to provide any sort of reason, the ATM probably has the discretion to deny it. It's like requesting sick leave, but refusing to provide any information why (I'm usually happy to give a play-by-play of my nasty symptoms, if management dares to ask).

If the BUE goes about it reasonably and gives justification - and the ATM still denies it - there's a good case to fight it.

 

[tink]

With all due respect, this appears to be a prime example of HR having no idea what they're talking about. Some HR folks know our CBA exists and apply it correctly, and others... don't. I guess the same goes for ATMs.

This time is not at the ATM's discretion to allow. Per the article you reference (Art 29 sec 4), "up to 64 hours of excused absence... shall be granted" and "employees may be required to provide justification for the use of this time." A hardship is absolutely a change in official post of duty, and your ATM citing Art 99 is not relevant here.

I suspect what gets ATM/HR confused is that some BUEs seem to demand this time and overlook the "justification" piece in the article. If a BUE goes "give me tomorrow off for COS" and refuses to provide any sort of reason, the ATM probably has the discretion to deny it. It's like requesting sick leave, but refusing to provide any information why (I'm usually happy to give a play-by-play of my nasty symptoms, if management dares to ask).

If the BUE goes about it reasonably and gives justification - and the ATM still denies it - there's a good case to fight it.

Oh, tricky waters there, the part about sick leave. Management is not allowed to ask why/how you're sick unless it's more than 3 days, only then they can ask for a doctors note. But less than 3 days, they better not ask me and expect me to give them any reason.

 

[Saltier]

Oh, tricky waters there, the part about sick leave. Management is not allowed to ask why/how you're sick unless it's more than 3 days, only then they can ask for a doctors note. But less than 3 days, they better not ask me and expect me to give them any reason.

as a trainee at a level 4 tower i will always cooperate with management so i usually preemptively bring in my sick notes.

 

[Stinger]

Oh, tricky waters there, the part about sick leave. Management is not allowed to ask why/how you're sick unless it's more than 3 days, only then they can ask for a doctors note. But less than 3 days, they better not ask me and expect me to give them any reason.

Got a source on that?

 

[Typeass]

Got a source on that?

Isnt it in the contract...?

 

[Stinger]

Isnt it in the contract...?

Asking for medical certificates and documentation is in there. But not just asking for a reason.

 

[Typeass]

Asking for medical certificates and documentation is in there. But not just asking for a reason.

Yeah i think its more a union management facility thing. Ive always been under the impression that you have no business asking me nor will i tell you unlesss its a few days.

 

[Saltier]

Yeah i think its more a union management facility thing. Ive always been under the impression that you have no business asking me nor will i tell you unlesss its a few days.

i think in advance they can too, like if it's scheduled for something. at least i've heard of that happening before.

 

[JackTBP]

Oh, tricky waters there, the part about sick leave. Management is not allowed to ask why/how you're sick unless it's more than 3 days, only then they can ask for a doctors note. But less than 3 days, they better not ask me and expect me to give them any reason.

Yes, badly worded on my end there. By "information", I was meaning to say the reason leave is requested: you're medically incapacitated; care for a family member; medical appointment; etc. Though I still remember for a certain nosy manager from the White Book days, it was fun to voluntarily offer up TMI-like details on the nature of my condition.

 

[Mike Kilo]

as a trainee at a level 4 tower i will always cooperate with management so i usually preemptively bring in my sick notes.

That just trains management to expect them from everyone for no reason.

 

[BigEggplant]

Never had a problem saying “I need to take suck leave today”

twice I’ve seen supes give people issues about SL, both were grieved, both were won by the union lol. Contract is very clear, and they can’t ask for documentation until after you exceed four days of SL.

 

[32andBelow]

Never had a problem saying “I need to take suck leave today”

twice I’ve seen supes give people issues about SL, both were grieved, both were won by the union lol. Contract is very clear, and they can’t ask for documentation until after you exceed four days of SL.

Good luck denying sick leave. The contract says you can self certify your illness

 

[Horny4Vectors]

Never had a problem saying “I need to take suck leave today”

twice I’ve seen supes give people issues about SL, both were grieved, both were won by the union lol. Contract is very clear, and they can’t ask for documentation until after you exceed four days of SL.

The typo here is just...*chef’s kiss*

 

[radarserviceterminated]

The typo here is just...*chef’s kiss*

Who needs covid leave when you can just run a dog shit final then turn and look at the OS and say “I need to take suck leave today.”
Edit: But I have known a few trainees to bang middle of the shift after a bad session so I guess it already happens. I would love that to be an actual leave type in the cru-art though. Ha.

 

[Saltier]

Edit: But I have known a few trainees to bang middle of the shift after a bad session so I guess it already happens. I would love that to be an actual leave type in the cru-art though. Ha.

there is no sense in them getting back into the saddle that day if they're too shaken or need to decompress from a bad session. They happen. Dont be a dick.