military experience vs FAA

Basically you watch trainees go round and round and you don't interfere unless you see a safety of flight issue. Military trainers only. Mega traffic count. Not so mega effort
At Vance they don’t count the rsu operations. Sure can get boring without control of the runway
 
I think the argument being made was that the two contract towers that were stated often times have controllers work the entire tower combined and therefore work 30-50k ops per controller….also when you say they only staff 2 in the tower how many controllers all together do they have. IWA had 3 or 4 cpcs and a manger pretty much all last yr….
There was a brief period last year it was 2 CPC’s 1 Ground and the ATM ….

GoGators It’s calculated by dividing total number of ops by total number of CPCs. It’s not a perfect formulation but it at least gives you a general idea. What you fail to realize is in 2019 (the year I worked at HWO and the year you’re referencing), HWO was ranked 28th in the country in tower ops. Little ole contract facility nobody gave a fuck about.

As to you “thinking” ground at any “higher level core 30 is way harder than any of those low levels listed for tower” … brother I would challenge you on that 8 days of the week. Don’t take that as me advocating that ground at LAX or DAL or ATL is easy by any stretch of the imagination. Don’t attempt to speak on the situation unless you’ve stood silently in the background of the tower cab on a day where you have 2 controllers for an entire shift and you push 1,500 ops that day on a north or south operation. While I haven’t worked at a level 10, 11, 12 tower, I’d bet my bank on putting that ground operation toe to toe with any airport in the FAA of your choosing.

How many times have you plugged in, cut the ATIS, and 7 minutes into opening the tower you’re calling out on the frequency “last calling ground remain on the ramp and standby, you’re number 33”? Because I’ve done it, multiple times. North or south operation at North Perry is one of the most difficult ground operations in the NAS and I’ll fight that to the grave. I received a ground pass down one day that went something like this:

“This is XX briefing YY on ground… **points out to airfield** this is what you’ve got.” Release the brief button and first transmission is “attention all aircraft do not speak on frequency until spoken to, I see all y’all out there and I will reach out individually to get you where you’re going. If you’re conducting pattern work, expect to taxi back to the ramp for an hour plus delay for traffic work, let’s get it.” **five planes immediately key up at the same time and squelch in your ear**

We had six controllers and a manager who was at hooters more often than the tower. It’s a bitch pulling into the parking lot at 640am and seeing 15 planes lined up doing run ups at the hood short of each runway.

Before you say I’m embellishing, we’ve had your FAA counterparts visit for an investigation/study. Reps from ATLA, MSP, and MIA. Who simply stood in the back observing. To have all three reps stop you on your way out the door after a 10 hour shift and ask if you do that every single day, 5-6 hours on position at a time without a break, can’t split local off, and run at that capacity day in and day out. To then tell you if you can work that traffic on a routine basis, that you could work at any facility in the NAS? I have ground to stand on.

But don’t gaslight me or anyone who’s worked the operation because you “think” it’s more difficult elsewhere. It’s time y’all put some respect on the name.

Here’s our airfield diagram and airspace map for reference. I’ve seen planes instructed to enter left downwind for 01L, called their interval, cleared to land, emphasis on 01L and they land 10L and miss 2 planes by less than 50ft. I’ve had simultaneous departures off 10L and 10R, aircraft off 10R have engine failure departure end airborn and make a diving left turn to land 10L opposite direction and the 10L departure run off the runway at full power to avoid the crashing emergency. I’ve had banner towers lose their engine with a banner in tow, drop the banner on the street, and crash into a parking garage resulting in fatalities. I’ve had a Seneca lose power on a 3 mile final and crash into a bank parking lot killing both student and instructor. I’ve had aircraft catch fire at the hold short. On more occasions than I can count have I had aircraft on unstable approach veer off the runway. I’ve had really good pilots/instructors go down in the Everglades, break both legs, manage to survive. I once had a student conducting their first solo, taxi out, depart without clearance, have to go around, next pass land, and run off the runway edge and crash. I was only there for a year. I’ve seen more accidents in that time than most people see in their careers.

What was the FAA’s solution? “We’re going to increase your staffing from 8 to 10.” Gee, thanks. That sure solves the issue of being able to staff the facility. Love the pat on their own back for fixing the problem. So instead of being 75% staffed we were 60%.

And to your very last point, nobody claimed anything was easier or harder. The post was simply highlighting based on one set of numbers who works the most and least ops per controller. It’s only one measurement. While the list does say “hardest facilities” it clarifies that it means most ops per controller. Ops per controller doesn’t paint the whole picture and it’s only 1 dimensional but it’s a metric nonetheless. Anyways…

**steps down off pedestal**
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To play devil’s advocate, so is saying I think another facility is more difficult without providing any context to your argument. Similarly, basing your opinion on how difficult a facility is because “all they work is puddle jumpers” and “they’re just a small contract tower, it’s not as difficult as an FAA facility because … they’re not in the FAA *vomits from mouth, convulsing*” 🤷🏻‍♂️
This is bringing back terrible flashbacks 🙅🏽‍♂️
 
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At Vance they don’t count the rsu operations. Sure can get boring without control of the runway
Gotta love the SOFs that come from places like END then go to single runway airports with mixed traffic and try to think they can control traffic. Had one tell me, "idk what we can't do such and such here. At DLF, we could have 10 or more in the pattern and the SOFs had it no issue."

I was just like, "yeah, that's all same type and multiple runways. We actually have rules here." 🤣
 
I recall an instance where they denied a point out once for an IFR into NQX and immediate requested a release. Never seen a controller so irate and get pulled of position so fast so as to de-escalate the situation before in my life.

Also, it’s interesting it has HWO as a level 9 equivalent with 180k ops. I believe the following year they did 272k and then around 325k the year after. I can’t seem to figure out how to access FTC numbers on the TCIP anymore. NQX at a 6 approach.. hmm. Not a cakewalk by any means and I’ve seen it get quite hairy given the right circumstances. Midday rush combined with a large recovery and EYW doing EYW things.
There’s almost no way to accurately judge military numbers since they like to (and are frequently told to) report formation flights as individual ops.

Gotta love the SOFs that come from places like END then go to single runway airports with mixed traffic and try to think they can control traffic. Had one tell me, "idk what we can't do such and such here. At DLF, we could have 10 or more in the pattern and the SOFs had it no issue."

I was just like, "yeah, that's all same type and multiple runways. We actually have rules here." 🤣
There’s always that one SOF who worked a stupid fucking RSU “tower” and thinks they can run a pattern better than actual controllers. 😂
 
There’s always that one SOF who worked a stupid fucking RSU “tower” and thinks they can run a pattern better than actual controllers. 😂
They tried dual locals at a facility I used to work. Basically the pilots said since they could run more ops with “RSU” rules vs ATC rules they wanted to keep the RSU pattern. lol
 
There’s always that one SOF who worked a stupid fucking RSU “tower” and thinks they can run a pattern better than actual controllers. 😂
Even better when the same pilot would be flying and be up everyone's ass and be mad when they got sent around because they didn't have appropriate separation.
 
They tried dual locals at a facility I used to work. Basically the pilots said since they could run more ops with “RSU” rules vs ATC rules they wanted to keep the RSU pattern. lol
And that’s fine if that’s what they want. Overall it isn’t as safe though but .mil pilots buy off on more inherent risk at the end of the day so I suppose it doesn’t really matter.

I was more or less getting at those pilots that sit SOF and ask us a boat load of questions with the demeanor that we aren’t very good at our jobs. Some that’ve worked RSUs just dont understand the rules we operate under for the sake of safety and liability and sometimes it shows lol.
 
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