NATCA leadership on those leaving the union

[natca.gov]

Contract negotiations are extremely expensive. Imagine how mad all the trolls would be if we spent a million dollars on a new contract that was anywhere from worse to not much better.
No dues were spent on going away gifts.
Travel, food, parties and booz are easy buzz words buts it’s really your leadership team traveling away from family to meet the membership in person. Would we rather they didn’t make themselves available in person?

We can debate the merits of the contract negotiation back and forth, but there's one thing that would have cost the union zero money this go around, and that was the length of the extension. They decided to extend it into the next presidential term. With the political climate that existed then and now, that decision was monumentally stupid. So stupid the NEB deserve to be removed. If they had any dignity they'd resign, but they're all just corrupt politicians. Just imagine the fight to come and money that will be spent while this union battles the Trump or DeSantis administration.

 

[Electricfence]

Ironically, within the last year Santa has been to the center I left and the center I’m at. But I can’t remember anyone outside of the region visiting during my first 14 years.

There’s other avenues that these guys leave their families to visit membership, like the convention. I’m with you though, a little more transparency goes along way. Most people are reasonable and just want to know what’s going on with their Union.

I agree most people are reasonable. If you have ever been a facrep what you find is you have the few who are unreasonable, and the reasonable ones don’t tell them to shut the fuck up or begin to get infected but the unreasonable. Being a leader to a workforce that seemingly goes one way or the other or doesn’t just give a fuck and does Absolutely Nothing is a lose lose in many ways. Transparency is key, but people are unreasonable when leadership can’t tell you everything. You let some info go and the other side finds out and they use that against you when they find out a large portion of your membership is t happy about something. I’m not advocating for or against anything that has been done, but there are difficult choices to be made and very few of the choices made or right or are thought out to the end. Such as the 1.6 raise. No one could have seen inflation balloon like this. Anyone who says that is a liar. So at the time that was a good agreement. But going back now to ask for more when the other side has nothing to do with inflation will not go anywhere. They know it. So why open the door for negotiations? It’s not worth it, but you have some of the work force saying we should, not realizing we make more than much of the country and thinking they deserve more

 

[Smitty]

No one could have seen inflation balloon like this. Anyone who says that is a liar. So at the time that was a good agreement. But going back now to ask for more when the other side has nothing to do with inflation will not go anywhere. They know it. So why open the door for negotiations?

I grant you that the hyper inflation was unforseeable when the Slate Book was negotiated, but since the Covid world ( and the extension happened well into COVID-19) supply chain shutdown shitshow and almost unlimited PPE and Stimmy were unleashed; it was almost impossible to NOT see this inflation coming. And realize that 1.6 is no longer 1.6!!!

 

[Homsar]

Voting to extend or not extend is a little different. By voting to not extend, you are essentially voting for an unknown contract. It could be the white book, or it could be the green book. Voting for a specific contract, you have a tangible starting point for additional negotiations if it is voted down. Slate book is pretty damned good. It could be better, but I would have voted to extend, if asked.

Labor friendly = just slightly better than anti-union.

Lots of “could”s in that post.

Regardless, I’m all for people like you making arguments like that to support one side of a vote on whether to reauthorize or negotiate, but that’s just it: it shouldn’t be up to the NEB to make the decision, it should be up to the membership whether they want to risk something better or keep the status quo. The NEB taking a position on a decision vote would be just fine, but the NEB essentially saying we’re too stupid to vote on that decision vote entirely is a pretty serious insult at the very least.

 

[Mike Kilo]

Lots of “could”s in that post.

Regardless, I’m all for people like you making arguments like that to support one side of a vote on whether to reauthorize or negotiate, but that’s just it: it shouldn’t be up to the NEB to make the decision, it should be up to the membership whether they want to risk something better or keep the status quo. The NEB taking a position on a decision vote would be just fine, but the NEB essentially saying we’re too stupid to vote on that decision vote entirely is a pretty serious insult at the very least.

I agree 100% however we barely had enough votes to sign off on the Slate book lol. Too stupid (lazy) is right for some people.

 

[Homsar]

I agree 100% however we barely had enough votes to sign off on the Slate book lol. Too stupid (lazy) is right for some people.

“Too stupid” and “too lazy” are very different things. Passionate people will vote, and I think a lot of people are fed up with NATCA with how they handled Covid, training, NCEPT, etc, that they would have put them to work to at least attempt to try and fix these issues with new negotiations, and hold them accountable if they failed. By passing the buck with an extension, they avoid liability.

 

[Mike Kilo]

“Too stupid” and “too lazy” are very different things. Passionate people will vote, and I think a lot of people are fed up with NATCA with how they handled Covid, training, NCEPT, etc, that they would have put them to work to at least attempt to try and fix these issues with new negotiations, and hold them accountable if they failed. By passing the buck with an extension, they avoid liability.

I see them as the same. If you won’t even vote on a contract because you’re lazy, you are also stupid. I’d bet some people complaining on here about not getting a vote on the extension didn’t vote on the contract to start with.

I agree with your other point. I would have preferred to see negotiations take place and think a lot of people are in that camp.

 

[Homsar]

I see them as the same. If you won’t even vote on a contract because you’re lazy, you are also stupid. I’d bet some people complaining on here about not getting a vote on the extension didn’t vote on the contract to start with.

I agree with your other point. I would have preferred to see negotiations take place and think a lot of people are in that camp.

Fair enough. I just don’t see stupidness/laziness as justification to not have a vote, but I don’t think you do either.

There’s also the component of trainees hired after the Slate book ratification and affected by the imposed training freeze, which caused many of them a lot of economic suffering. Them not having a voice when it comes to an extension is a travesty.

 

[Move78]

It could be worse so we better not dare hope or try! That’s a philosophy to live by if I ever heard one

Personally I’m in favor of the extension. It’s certainly debatable.
Also there’s plenty in the slate book I don’t like and would wish to improve.
But this post implies trying is free. Maybe we should have tried. But it would not be free. Trying would be financially expensive. It would also be risking previous victories. It’s a negotiation. Some things you like might have to be traded away. Some things could be lost outright in arbitration.
The post also implies renegotiation was never considered. Of course it was considered.

 

[32andBelow]

Personally I’m in favor of the extension. It’s certainly debatable.
Also there’s plenty in the slate book I don’t like and would wish to improve.
But this post implies trying is free. Maybe we should have tried. But it would not be free. Trying would be financially expensive. It would also be risking previous victories. It’s a negotiation. Some things you like might have to be traded away. Some things could be lost outright in arbitration.
The post also implies renegotiation was never considered. Of course it was considered.

It’s the government, We wouldn’t have lost anything. And literally every cent we pay is so the union can negotiate our contract. It’s the point of a union.

 

[Smitty]

It’s the government, We wouldn’t have lost anything. And literally every cent we pay is so the union can negotiate our contract. It’s the point of a union.

How weird that they fought so hard for so long after the white book to earn the right to negotiate for pay, and then didn't.

Even though this has become a major part of this New England reprisal thread, I think most people quit this year for other reasons. Death by a thousand cuts

 

[32andBelow]

How weird that they fought so hard for so long after the white book to earn the right to negotiate for pay, and then didn't.

Even though this has become a major part of this New England reprisal thread, I think most people quit this year for other reasons. Death by a thousand cuts

It was cus the old regime couldn’t handle the new guy getting a win. They had to get their name on it for however many more years

 

[Move78]

It’s the government, We wouldn’t have lost anything. And literally every cent we pay is so the union can negotiate our contract. It’s the point of a union.

This is the union’s unfortunate failure of education. The pros and cons of the contract can be reasonably argued. But too many are still unaware of the headwinds.

It was cus the old regime couldn’t handle the new guy getting a win. They had to get their name on it for however many more years

So is it a win or a loss?

 

[32andBelow]

This is the union’s unfortunate failure of education. The pros and cons of the contract can be reasonably argued. But too many are still unaware of the headwinds.


So is it a win or a loss?

It’s a win for them can say they extended it but a loss for everyone else.

Why would there be a headwind? Even if they didn’t get us more money they could have negotiated better QOL or maybe get the 1.6 bumped up a bit

 

[Smitty]

this is what happens when you elect the Apparently Kid as RVP

 

[ManBearPig]

It’s a win for them can say they extended it but a loss for everyone else.

Why would there be a headwind? Even if they didn’t get us more money they could have negotiated better QOL or maybe get the 1.6 bumped up a bit

Why do you assume we wouldn't have to give something up, to get those things? What leads you to believe the government would just give us more money/time off????

 

[Mc15]

You ungrateful sons of b$&@$. I’m taking screenshots of all of this and sending it up the chain. See y’all at the convention

 

[Spaceforce]

You ungrateful sons of b$&@$. I’m taking screenshots of all of this and sending it up the chain. See y’all at the convention

As I’ve heard many times before. Snitches get stitches.

Anyone wonder what they were worried about with bargaining over a new contract?

 

[Bandit117]

As I’ve heard many times before. Snitches get stitches.

Anyone wonder what they were worried about with bargaining over a new contract?

The explanation I’ve heard from lower level natca leadership is that once Paul and Trish were gone and so went their vast network of bipartisan support. And that they were afraid to let a brand new team, Santa and bovidge, negotiate due to their lack of experience. I think it’s a crock tho, both of the “new” leadership have been RVPs for forever

 

[Horno]

As I’ve heard many times before. Snitches get stitches.

Anyone wonder what they were worried about with bargaining over a new contract?

The explanation I’ve heard from lower level natca leadership is that once Paul and Trish were gone and so went their vast network of bipartisan support. And that they were afraid to let a brand new team, Santa and bovidge, negotiate due to their lack of experience. I think it’s a crock tho, both of the “new” leadership have been RVPs for forever

The explanation I’ve heard from lower level is that the union was in jeopardy of existing with the Trump administration and when the Biden administration got elected they didn’t want to risk negotiations because you stand to loose everything you gain