Possible Proposal for Placement

[Usm4r1n3]

Hello All,
Thinking about a proposal for NATCA. Post your thoughts/ criticisms.

Sign a contract with the ATM and it gets put in your file stating that after 5 years of service to your current facility you are either guaranteed placement or top priority to your facility of preference. (Maybe a wish-list of 2/3 facilities)

If you apply for NCEPT or accept any supervisor bids or Other USA jobs bids it is removed and void.

And/or After so many years you are given either a selection or top priority until selected at one of your wish-list facilities.

Only like-type facilities count. (I.E. Up/Down to Tracon or Tower, Tower to Tower, Tracon to Tracon, Center to Center etc.) Center/Terminal transfers use NCEPT. After obtaining CPC, serve facility for 3 years for level 9 and below requests, 4 years for level 10 and up requests, and 5 years for one guaranteed facility or priority placement.

Thoughts?

 

[Mc15]

Sounds good but how are we all going to work at CLT, PCT, DFW lol

 

[Usm4r1n3]

That's where i'm thinking that the "priority" would be the more reasonable solution. Dream big to start then get knocked back down to earth haha. This does give plenty of heads up (years) to staff lower level facilities, and gives some loyalty in writing to current facilities.

 

[CaptainObvious]

That's where i'm thinking that the "priority" would be the more reasonable solution. Dream big to start then get knocked back down to earth haha. This does give plenty of heads up (years) to staff lower level facilities, and gives some loyalty in writing to current facilities.

So what happens when your priority doesn’t get you to the facility you want? Hold the FAA in breach of this contract?

 

[Usm4r1n3]

The priority remains in place. (based on order received). Having a wish-list of 3 should help with this to some extent. If this were to ever happen It would be of benefit to ask the reps at the facilities where you stand on the list. If the priority number projects you way out from any selection in the near future, maybe adding a 4th or 5th facility in addendum to the wish list could be an option, without any need for further commitment to the facility if served 5 years after obtaining CPC.

 

[Dolan]

I think you'd end up with 80% of CPCs waiting to get into 10% of facilities so it's important to make sure who goes first is fair

 

[Usm4r1n3]

I agree. I think the same is true for NCEPT. I think this would incentivize those to stay put longer when you attach priority to where you try to get. I think a wish list with the order received would give more faith in the process. This wouldn’t eliminate NCEPT but in stead give more power to those who can stick with where they are in order for them to get where they want to be. Those 10% of facilities already have the same people who want to go there anyway on their NCEPT lists. If I could put more stock into getting PCT CLT DFW DEN SCT NCT A90 etc I’d definitely weigh that heavily vs trying to jump around to see what sticks.

 

[Dontbotherme]

Five years is way too few for them to even consider it. Have you read Article 60, in the CBA, as it states 8 years for priority placement for ingrade/downgrade BUE positions so why would they ever agree to something less than a minimum of 8 years to allow you to move especially without potentially having staffing to cover your loss? Plus, your ATM isn’t going to sign anything that goes against nationally agreed MOUs.

 

[ajmezz]

How would this work for people who have already been at their facility for close to 5 years or even over? They have to wait another 5? Their time is “pro-rated?” Everyone starts the same day, so 5 years down the line you have a huge issue with releasing people due to not having the staffing to replace them? I like the idea, just don’t think it could be implemented correctly without screwing over a bunch of people. Similar to the current system.

 

[GulfBravoPapa]

What if you're a crappy controller and a crappy employee and nobody actually wants to pick you up? A higher level facility should be forced to take you because you stayed somewhere five years? Five years is nothing. I've known people in training for five years.

 

[Usm4r1n3]

It wouldn’t be pro rated, you decide that you want priority at a certain point in exchange for guaranteed service to your current facility. Also it’s only in effect after CPC, so 5 years after CPC is solid payback. If you are a crappy employee, an ATM should be able to not sign the agreement and tell the employee to go on your merry way with NCEPT.

Yes I’ve read Article 60, which doesn’t help career progression. This would at least get upward mobility in motion.

 

[Dontbotherme]

It wouldn’t be pro rated, you decide that you want priority at a certain point in exchange for guaranteed service to your current facility. Also it’s only in effect after CPC, so 5 years after CPC is solid payback. If you are a crappy employee, an ATM should be able to not sign the agreement and tell the employee to go on your merry way with NCEPT.

Yes I’ve read Article 60, which doesn’t help career progression. This would at least get upward mobility in motion.

Your upward mobility is based on facility release dates now aka NCEPT. Five years is nowhere near long enough for the union or management to ever come to that agreement.

 

[Usm4r1n3]

Here is the issue with certain sides of the argument. People want to defend their facilities from bad employees (which I get but) but I’ve never seen a perfect environment so that not going to work.

Others want priority if nothing else to getting their dream locations, not blind luck mixed with hard work and networking.

The managers “lose” people to NCEPT (in their opinion) all the time and want to stop the bleeding as much as possible. And the agency doesn’t have an overall retention problem it’s a hiring one. To see where looks to be vacant in 5 years could be of use in placement.

There are many who checked out and within a year got an FOL to where they want. I am one of those, but to ignore some of the very hard working people who have been at their facilities for a very long time and want some light at the end of the tunnel is another disservice.

Once again this would go against my own interest, but 5 years post CPC can equal 6-9 years at a facility quite often. If the agency can’t place people properly based on that long of a time (and obviously they are the worst in the world) then they will keep finding themselves on national news for ineptitude. That ones on them.

I think that giving managers some time to prepare for inbounds and for us to train our replacements (or many of them) could help.

 

[BC1234]

How about close or consolidate some facilities? would limit the amount of facilities that people could be placed direct from the academy, would allow some current employees the choice to move where they want, would increase staffing at many other facilities to allow more movement for the ncept.

 

[Usm4r1n3]

How about close or consolidate some facilities? would limit the amount of facilities that people could be placed direct from the academy, would allow some current employees the choice to move where they want, would increase staffing at many other facilities to allow more movement for the ncept.

I believe that is where we are headed anyways. Ideally, I like the thought of a bunch of remote towers (definitely not everyone’s opinion). I’d like to be assigned one Tower one day then another the next. Consolidating tracons will continue to happen also. I’m just looking at the problems as they stand. It could be a very different issue in 5 years.

 

[Dolan]

What if you're a crappy controller and a crappy employee and nobody actually wants to pick you up?

Then the current system is your best friend ???

 

[32andBelow]

Sounds like a really good way to get everyone’s kids into their parents facility. Just like it was in the old hiring process.

 

[Usm4r1n3]

Sounds like a really good way to get everyone’s kids into their parents facility. Just like it was in the old hiring process.

So NCEPT was supposed to keep them out? Merits or any type of reward system shouldn’t exist?

Give me a solution.

 

[Aa12]

Consolidating tracons will continue to happen also.

This one will be harder than you realize. Lets take Seattle tracon and Portland tracon. Seattle should suck up Portland. But now you are taking 30 something controller jobs, management jobs, multiple support and tech-ops jobs out of Oregon and giving them to Washington. Do you think Oregon and their politicians are going to just let 40-50 odd people mostly making 6 figures leave for Washington state without a fight? That's a big hit to Oregon's revenue. Now repeat this process for any consolidation across state lines.

 

[Usm4r1n3]

This one will be harder than you realize. Lets take Seattle tracon and Portland tracon. Seattle should suck up Portland. But now you are taking 30 something controller jobs, management jobs, multiple support and tech-ops jobs out of Oregon and giving them to Washington. Do you think Oregon and their politicians are going to just let 40-50 odd people mostly making 6 figures leave for Washington state without a fight? That's a big hit to Oregon's revenue. Now repeat this process for any consolidation across state lines.

It won’t happen lightning fast at all. But as it has happened in the past, to some extent it will continue to do so. This won’t apply to every facility but over time this will be pushed more and more. When cost saving is used as a reason it sounds more appealing to politicians.