Pushed to the brink? Another NYT article rehashes all the problems that haven't changed since before Reagan and PATCO

[HurryUpandWait]

The already released a cope email statement about it. Boo hoo cwrg cwrg cwrg, as if that’s the silver bullet that will fix everything. Brand new certs can’t and won’t work traffic like people who have been certified for 5,10 plus years🙃. they don’t care about pay or the death schedule that is the rattler. They only want CWRG bc more staff means more membership which means more dues.

Damn, kind of have a point...

 

[AlmostEligible]

It was a few panels ago but m98 got the very last person, a guy from flint with no radar exp, bc all the higher picks were off the table by the time it came down to them

I'm not sure but I believe I was my level 12 radar facilities last pick. I came from a level 5 VFR tower. Still made it and got certified though. Oh, and it wasn't COVID19 traffic. Last picks make it. But yeah, the system does suck.

 

[the inquirer]

Do it till they hit 100% of the new numbers that they think are so important.

I just don’t think we will ever hit the old numbers at 100% across the NAS.

 

[Move78]

I bet the fatigued and mental issues are in the thousands of that 12,000. It’s not just about three people who interviewed with the NYT it’s a systemic problem. NATCA could help make turns 10 hours, limit the amount of overtime that they are using to solve their problems (reduced services) negotiate pay higher than GS scale. There has been a staffing problem for far too long and NATCA is ok to watch traffic increase and actually staffing go down and keep saying the same shit hire more people. Not how can we advocate for the people on the boards for dealing with this BS position they are working in. Extend the contract! Best ever!

The response didn’t denounce the fatigue and mental health whistle blowing. It denounced the claims that controllers are drunk and stoned at work. Those instances are not reflective of the workforce.

 

[32andBelow]

I just don’t think we will ever hit the old numbers at 100% across the NAS.

That’s why this CWRG thing is so pointless. It’s just going to be negative to us

 

[atc12bsthrowaway]

Most fixes are named after active controllers or those that helped design certain SIDS/arrivals. But sure. Everyone dies in a year after retiring yet you cant post a shred of proof.

I have been at my 12 for 5 years and was at my 8 for three years. Since then:
1 died a month after retirement
1 died of cancer during
2 died from suicide

Both my last facility and area have less than 30 controllers each.

 

[Move78]

Besides implementing CRWG numbers how is NATCA advocating for us to improve our quality of life immediately? Staffing takes years to fix. I’ve yet to see anything mentioned by NATCA fighting to increase our pay, differentials, or anything in order to compensate us during the years it’ll take to fix our staffing. Maybe a better contract should have been negotiated when we had the chance with the most labor friendly administration ever. The union has done plenty to weaken itself recently.

I’ll happily admit I’m wrong if the union is actually fighting for things like that currently and I’ve just missed the boat. Only thing I can think of is the increase in OJTI pay.

Staffing is directly correlated with working conditions. The union isn’t allowed to hire or place. They don’t staff. But they’ve been bitching to the FAA about staffing for years. Staffing and funding. And unfortunately they’re both interlinked and they’re tied up in a swamp of morons on the hill.
But yeah pay us all more, sure. We all agree. This is a new problem though, our wages have been decimated, in context, only in the last few years by inflation and the massive gains other labor organizations have achieved.

 

[Move78]

That’s why this CWRG thing is so pointless. It’s just going to be negative to us

To you, in your 1 opinion, at your 1 center that you continue to extrapolate into the entire NAS.

 

[32andBelow]

To you, in your 1 opinion, at your 1 center that you continue to extrapolate into the entire NAS.

Were the people that came up with the old numbers stupid? We haven’t even hit them

 

[Bandit117]

To you, in your 1 opinion, at your 1 center that you continue to extrapolate into the entire NAS.

I mean, the faa, with the best and brightest managers and senior leaders they can find (heh), can’t staff the numbers we have now. How are they supposed to recruit, hire, place, train and certify another 25% of the number they can’t even reach right now. Money is lubrication but it won’t get blood from a stone

 

[Raise when?]

I just don’t think we will ever hit the old numbers at 100% across the NAS.

Not with this pay scale

 

[Raise when?]

Were the people that came up with the old numbers stupid? We haven’t even hit them

Why yes. Yes they were and are.

 

[KiloZulu]

I mean, the faa, with the best and brightest managers and senior leaders they can find (heh), can’t staff the numbers we have now. How are they supposed to recruit, hire, place, train and certify another 25% of the number they can’t even reach right now. Money is lubrication but it won’t get blood from a stone

I don't disagree, but paying us enough that qualified controllers don't quit before retirement would be a start.

 

[32andBelow]

I don't disagree, but paying us enough that qualified controllers don't quit before retirement would be a start.

That’s why the union should focus on that and not the FAAs staffing numbers

 

[Move78]

I mean, the faa, with the best and brightest managers and senior leaders they can find (heh), can’t staff the numbers we have now. How are they supposed to recruit, hire, place, train and certify another 25% of the number they can’t even reach right now. Money is lubrication but it won’t get blood from a stone

Money is also a requirement. And the agency can’t ask for the correct dollar amount if they don’t know how many controllers they need.

 

[Move78]

Were the people that came up with the old numbers stupid? We haven’t even hit them

That’s because they don’t use those numbers to hire. They just use them to place. They’re also 10 years old and even if they were perfect at the time, they are no longer accurate.

 

[NotKC]

I wonder what our actual agency staffing percentage is now with these new numbers.

 

[SunnyATC]

The only thing that will result from this article is more drug and alcohol testing (which is fine). All the ATC problems have been solved.

 

[32andBelow]

That’s because they don’t use those numbers to hire. They just use them to place. They’re also 10 years old and even if they were perfect at the time, they are no longer accurate.

They have to stop doing everything centrally and go back to regional psnrls or direct facility hiring. If a facility needs more people then they should request them like any other business or agency would. All these are just band aids to make a broken system work better.

 

[Bandit117]

They have to stop doing everything centrally and go back to regional psnrls or direct facility hiring. If a facility needs more people then they should request them like any other business or agency would. All these are just band aids to make a broken system work better.

There are some ATMs under the old system who wouldn’t put out bids, even when the staffing was dire, bc they thought it told their bosses that they couldn’t do their jobs