Better pay doesn't result in better staffing. We have tens of thousands of applicants every year. We could easily have better staffing but the FAA won't hire and then the bottleneck that is OKC.
Pushed to the brink? Another NYT article rehashes all the problems that haven't changed since before Reagan and PATCO
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Mike Kilo
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Shhh, I would rather have more pay.
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So the massive wave of retirements can’t be improved by getting away from the GS scale and controllers getting better high 3’s? We can’t attract BETTER applicants with higher pay? Yeah we get a shitload of applications but how many of them are remotely qualified to do the job. If the bulk of quality ATC candidates are aviation enthusiasts wouldn’t it make sense to have pay that rivals pilots getting record breaking contracts and have government stability…
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PooseMaGoose
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If better pay doesn’t result in better staffing, then logically we could say lower pay wouldn’t result in worse staffing… and my spidey senses are tingling on that load of BS
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You know they never found this guy? His press conferences were hilarious.Live look at NATCA Propaganda Ministers attempting to LIE their fucking faces off about the banger Emily Steel article...
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32andBelow
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We need to stop worrying about staffing. The FAA needs to worry about staffing Natca needs to worry about getting us paid more
dingalings99
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if there is a nonzero number of controllers that have quit, retired, or will retire because the juice isnt worth the squeeze anymore when it comes to pay to quality of life then yes more pay would result in better staffing
Foppery&Whim
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If the job paid $500k and certain hiring reforms were enacted, staffing would be fixed. You see plenty of 1st year Wall Street analysts/traders sell their souls for money. Quality of life will blow but you'll have more money for higher class escorts, celebrity endorsed vodka, and coffee aged in whiskey barrel. Add 2 or 3 divorces and child support to that mix. Let's not kid ourselves though, the FAA would rather we end up dead on position, preventing us from collecting our pension. It's cheaper that way.
The FAA had 57,956 applications for 1,500 open air traffic controller positions in 2022.
You really think they're going to up the pay just to keep less than 1,000 controllers from quitting or retiring? I think most of you are intentionally trying to ignore the fact that you're replaceable and there isn't thousands lining up to take your spot at any given moment. We get paid very well and I'm really curious how some of you think we don't. When I get the time, I'm going to make a nice spreadsheet and show how we're ahead of inflation nearly every single year and those saying we aren't are liars. You can't negotiate based on lies and that's why we aren't going to get a huge raise like some of you dream of.
You really think they're going to up the pay just to keep less than 1,000 controllers from quitting or retiring? I think most of you are intentionally trying to ignore the fact that you're replaceable and there isn't thousands lining up to take your spot at any given moment. We get paid very well and I'm really curious how some of you think we don't. When I get the time, I'm going to make a nice spreadsheet and show how we're ahead of inflation nearly every single year and those saying we aren't are liars. You can't negotiate based on lies and that's why we aren't going to get a huge raise like some of you dream of.
This staffing BS is all by design imo. There are people in different parts of the FAA(AFN) that can’t stand labor in general. They hate our contract(even though we obviously want more ). One way to get back at labor and their hate for our contracts is to kill staffing by the controller workforce plan. It’s working, they have the workforce tired and angry.
That’s why we keep hearing so much about FAA re authorization and the CRWG. It will take that power away from those assholes.
Then once that is set in stone, we got after pay and the next contract.
It’s stepping stones, be hopeful they are playing this game properly.
That’s why we keep hearing so much about FAA re authorization and the CRWG. It will take that power away from those assholes.
Then once that is set in stone, we got after pay and the next contract.
It’s stepping stones, be hopeful they are playing this game properly.
DADDYSbabyBIRD
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Look forward to your spreadsheet
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The applicants who apply are sold on a lie. They are sold on a lie of being able to easily transfer after paying "their dues" to their first facility. They are sold on a lie that this job has a certain amount of prestige without realising the cost to their personal lives or marriages, or the odds of dying past retirement. They are sold on a lie that the agency actually is competent and staffed by management that will reward hard work and commitment to the "company" when all that matters is the fact that a staffing trigger is not initiated.
Somenewguy
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The people who always cite airline pay increases literally don't understand how compound interest works. A 30 percent raise after NOT getting a 5% yearly raise for 5 years isn't impressive.
I don't think transferring is as hard as most of you make it out to be. My up/down had one of the longest training times in the country and managed to have 9 people transfer in the 3 years I was there. If you apply for MCO, sorry you probably aren't getting there unless you hardship since everyone else wants that facility too.
Also. People keep saying we die early but where's the actual proof. How much of this was due to all the smoking back in the day? Id argue most controllers are pretty healthy. We had like 3 obese people out of 70 people at the facilities I've been at. Lots of going to the gym, running, biking, etc. I think this "early death" thing is just something you guys like to regurgitate.
Top5fatcat
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The numbers regarding the NCEPT do not lie, check them out sometime. I have known a few in my life that knocked off within a year or two of retirement.
the inquirer
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Imagine as a young person you are presented with a couple opportunities. First, you go to school for four years and get a degree and get your first job starting at $130,000. Second, you can apply to become an air traffic controller. If you don’t know if you will get the job or not and if you do, when? Then you are sent off far from home and make 70-80k as a CPC. You then wish to transfer back home, but realize you are stuck. You start to kick yourself because in that same timeframe, you could’ve went to school and got a degree. Many people in my life have done just that and have received jobs straight out of college starting at 180-200k. This is the dilemma the FAA faces. This is what our profession is up against. We need to attract bright minds, and that would entail higher pay. That is why, Coffee, we are underpaid. The 58,000 applicants mean nothing if they are burger flippers and shelf stockers.
Top5fatcat
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Anyone who works at a high level large facility for any period of time knows many people who have died within a year of retiring. This is an extremely common occurrence and many 5 letter fixes on SIDS & STARS are named after these people. His posts are obvious trolling or else he is in a bubble at the slowest level 4 in the NAS & feels self loathing for how much he makes to do nothing
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It is funny you mention the 5 letter fixes, I did not remember them until you mentioned it.
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