Pushed to the brink? Another NYT article rehashes all the problems that haven't changed since before Reagan and PATCO

Actual controllers have to wait months after certifying on a position before they can go back to class and lab and now you want to add in more new hires to the local lab to learn from the ground up? No thanks
Can you imagine if we paid instructors a decent enough wage so those that are terrified of losing a medical could staff positions to train the next generation of controllers. Better staffing, mental health, safety culture all solved with better pay all around.
 
Sending CTIs direct to facilities is going to end of being a knee jerk agency reaction that isn't going to help shit in the short term or long term. CTIs need to go to OKC and be screened like OTS hires.
Then what’s your solution if OKC is the main bottleneck? They throw around the idea of a second academy but how many years would that take to get up and running? Not to mention staffing it when they can’t staff the one they have. I’m all for direct hires if they can double the number of hires every year. Try letting new hires test out of the academy by taking tests or showing certain experience. It’s not like the academy is some foolproof system anyway. Gotta do something.
 
Then what’s your solution if OKC is the main bottleneck? They throw around the idea of a second academy but how many years would that take to get up and running? Not to mention staffing it when they can’t staff the one they have. I’m all for direct hires if they can double the number of hires every year. Try letting new hires test out of the academy by taking tests or showing certain experience. It’s not like the academy is some foolproof system anyway. Gotta do something.
OKC isn’t staffed because nobody wants to go from making 180k to 70k and live in OKC. Money fixes staffing and NATCA should be screaming it on every public stage they have.
 
Sending CTIs direct to facilities is going to end of being a knee jerk agency reaction that isn't going to help shit in the short term or long term. CTIs need to go to OKC and be screened like OTS hires.
Something has to be done, at this point most facilities (I think), would rather have bodies to train instead of waiting months / years because of academy. Not justifying CTI or anything but the time is now to literally throw shit at the wall and see what happens.
 
I have and I made a big post about it. Tons of people are trying to go to the same highly sought after facilities. NCEPT has some problems but most of you are doom and gloom.
There are at least 3 different FAAs you can get placed into.

1) right into a high level facility, usually the Z’s. You might not be able to transfer out easily but you’ll be in the top tier of pay. Buying a house, maxing your TSP, these are all things you should be able to do quickly, with the exception of a couple UHCOL Z’s (ZOA and ZNY stick out here). You might not be able to transfer easily unless it’s ZLC or ZDV but at least you’re well above the Median pay, even on D3. You can always bid a supe job and you’ll prolly rank high given that you have high level ATC experience. This is one possibility

3) The 2nd is the advertised FAA. You’ll place right into a low level VFR tower and you’ll be certified in a few months and you’ll probably be picked up somewhere else a few months later. These facilities are revolving doors, each release results in near instant replacement, given how 1 person can be 10% of a facilities staffing. These are the places we’re people get out so often you can afford to wait for THE facility to pick you up, because you know that when it’s time, you will be eligible for release. You don’t have people stabbing each other in the back for Suoervisor jobs or hardships, because they aren’t necessary here. This is a great FAA, and the ones with low time in the agency who bounce direct to their dream facility in a year or 2 wonder why everyone else is so bitter.

3) the third FAA is akin to some kind of purgatory. This is the worst FAA. You’ll place into some up/down with consistently mediocre staffing and releases are few and far between, in some second or third rate city no one is trying to get to. You will take years to certify with the inevitable delays for people ahead of you, waiting for RTF, etc. you aren’t going anywhere soon. Your best shot is a hardship or a supe bid. No matter how piss poor your staffing is they always seem to find an excuse to carve out a sup job. God help you if you get close to numbers, you’ll prolly get 2-3 supe deviations, cutting you off at the knees yet again. You probably won’t be poor, but you’re not able to max your TSP, and you certainly won’t be getting a new boat and vacation house like the guy at the Z you know who stayed across from you at the academy. You’re well below the median pay, and maxing your 5-7 pay band doesn’t even get there. You might be able to release 1 person every 5 years or so. It will be like the hunger games. Friendships and working relationships will be ruined. People will do anything to get a hardship approved, or apply to every supe bid that pops up, because anything is better than this mediocre existence. Even internal supe jobs in your cursed facility will get several people applying, so they can take the job and leave as soon as their year is up. You will be the last person from your academy class still at their first facility. Your friends will be like hey, why are you still at XXX, like you’re staying there on purpose. Your only real hope is a desperation bid to N90 or C90. You won’t even bother with ERRs after a few years, since there’s no hope of ever getting close to numbers, because each time you do they approve a supervisor deviation and you’re back at the bottom. They will send you people from the academy, but it will be the dregs of the class, window lickers who can’t even spell ATC. You might get prior exp who either are ready to go out the gate or maybe you’ll suspect they bribed someone to take their asvab for them. Either way, you will get enough people so that if everyone certifies, which they won’t, you could release one person. Everyone wants to leave though. Not a single person is planning to stay, but you’re all getting stuck there. As before, when all those new people get close, a couple of Supervisor deviations and you’re right back at the bottom again. This is the worst path for a few hire.

There is a fourth FAA, the deeply understaffed higher level facilities that only gets bids, or ERRs, but these are dark places, and I will not utter their names here.

The reality is having the same release policies for 4 vastly different types of facilities is what is called disparate impact - it appears neutral on its face, but it effects each group far differently. It’s no secret that up to 75% of all movement comes out of VFR towers - even high level towers routinely release
 
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There are at least 3 different FAAs you can get placed into.

1) right into a high level facility, usually the Z’s. You might not be able to transfer out easily but you’ll be in the top tier of pay. Buying a house, maxing your TSP, these are all things you should be able to do quickly, with the exception of a couple UHCOL Z’s (ZOA and ZNY stick out here). You might not be able to transfer easily unless it’s ZLC or ZDV but at least you’re well above the Median pay, even on D3. You can always bid a supe job and you’ll prolly rank high given that you have high level ATC experience. This is one possibility

3) The 2nd is the advertised FAA. You’ll place right into a low level VFR tower and you’ll be certified in a few months and you’ll probably be picked up somewhere else a few months later. These facilities are revolving doors, each release results in near instant replacement, given how 1 person can be 10% of a facilities staffing. These are the places we’re people get out so often you can afford to wait for THE facility to pick you up, because you know that when it’s time, you will be eligible for release. You don’t have people stabbing each other in the back for Suoervisor jobs or hardships, because they aren’t necessary here. This is a great FAA, and the ones with low time in the agency who bounce direct to their dream facility in a year or 2 wonder why everyone else is so bitter.

3) the third FAA is akin to some kind of purgatory. This is the worst FAA. You’ll place into some up/down with consistently mediocre staffing and releases are few and far between, in some second or third rate city no one is trying to get to. You will take years to certify with the inevitable delays for people ahead of you, waiting for RTF, etc. you aren’t going anywhere soon. Your best shot is a hardship or a supe bid. No matter how piss poor your staffing is they always seem to find an excuse to carve out a sup job. God help you if you get close to numbers, you’ll prolly get 2-3 supe deviations, cutting you off at the knees yet again. You probably won’t be poor, but you’re not able to max your TSP, and you certainly won’t be getting a new boat and vacation house like the guy at the Z you know who stayed across from you at the academy. You’re well below the median pay, and maxing your 5-7 pay band doesn’t even get there. You might be able to release 1 person every 5 years or so. It will be like the hunger games. Friendships and working relationships will be ruined. People will do anything to get a hardship approved, or apply to every supe bid that pops up, because anything is better than this mediocre existence. Even internal supe jobs in your cursed facility will get several people applying, so they can take the job and leave as soon as their year is up. You will be the last person from your academy class still at their first facility. Your friends will be like hey, why are you still at XXX, like you’re staying there on purpose. Your only real hope is a desperation bid to N90 or C90. You won’t even bother with ERRs after a few years, since there’s no hope of ever getting close to numbers, because each time you do they approve a supervisor deviation and you’re back at the bottom. They will send you people from the academy, but it will be the dregs of the class, window lickers who can’t even spell ATC. You might get prior exp who either are ready to go out the gate or maybe you’ll suspect they bribed someone to take their asvab for them. Either way, you will get enough people so that if everyone certifies, which they won’t, you could release one person. Everyone wants to leave though. Not a single person is planning to stay, but you’re all getting stuck there. As before, when all those new people get close, a couple of Supervisor deviations and you’re right back at the bottom again. This is the worst path for a few hire.

There is a fourth FAA, the deeply understaffed higher level facilities that only gets bids, or ERRs, but these are dark places, and I will not utter their names here.
Really accurate
 
Better pay doesn't result in better staffing. We have tens of thousands of applicants every year. We could easily have better staffing but the FAA won't hire and then the bottleneck that is OKC.
It would likely deter many leaving the FAA to go DOD who apparently have become much more competitive with their pay lately, it would deter those leaving for other job opportunities because the pay has now become not worth the shitty schedules we are on. It would most definitely help staffing.
 
I used to work at a high locality level 5 tower. We were 100% staffed and when the facility had a sup bid came out 2 controllers from the facility put in for it. Instead a level 12 controller from a low staffed radar facility got picked up on a deviation. He was simply there for his high 3 since he saved his level 12 pay and locality raise he got was like a 20% bump. The FAA doesn't care about staffing or safety at all.
 
Disappointed in NATCA National for their response. This was a real opportunity for them to argue for better pay and working conditions. Not just argue for but demand. Once things go public it’s hard to ignore it and they should stand behind the controllers and blame the FAA.
That doesn't sound very collaborative
 
I havent put much thought into this idea at all, it just popped in my head - what would yall think of sending academy students to the military ATC schools? The USAF tech school at Keesler has adacel tower sims and stars radar sims. Its a government institution. Idk how full they are, but theoretically these students gotta pass a background check/get a security clearance, and if we're desperate, send them to school on military bases.
 
I havent put much thought into this idea at all, it just popped in my head - what would yall think of sending academy students to the military ATC schools? The USAF tech school at Keesler has adacel tower sims and stars radar sims. Its a government institution. Idk how full they are, but theoretically these students gotta pass a background check/get a security clearance, and if we're desperate, send them to school on military bases.
Absolutely not. I have seen the product that comes out of NAS Pensacola (obviously Navy) and the tower simulator we had at Key West. Buggy, hardly supported, and terribly out of date.
 
Absolutely not. I have seen the product that comes out of NAS Pensacola (obviously Navy) and the tower simulator we had at Key West. Buggy, hardly supported, and terribly out of date.

I just think the instructors suck. When I went through it was 2 civilians and a E-4 I think. I can't remember the exact quote one of the civilians said but something along the lines of "it would take an act of Congress to get us fired." They did minimal teaching and just sat there making fun of trainees.
 
I havent put much thought into this idea at all, it just popped in my head - what would yall think of sending academy students to the military ATC schools? The USAF tech school at Keesler has adacel tower sims and stars radar sims. Its a government institution. Idk how full they are, but theoretically these students gotta pass a background check/get a security clearance, and if we're desperate, send them to school on military bases.
Usaf ATC isn’t in a much better spot than the faa but it’s an out of the box idea, worth looking into or not i can’t say
 
I havent put much thought into this idea at all, it just popped in my head - what would yall think of sending academy students to the military ATC schools? The USAF tech school at Keesler has adacel tower sims and stars radar sims. Its a government institution. Idk how full they are, but theoretically these students gotta pass a background check/get a security clearance, and if we're desperate, send them to school on military bases.
Bad idea that also allows the FAA to pass the buck. The FAA simply needs to expand the academy and pay the instructors better. But they won't because they doesn't truly care. They just pretend they do
 
I just think the instructors suck. When I went through it was 2 civilians and a E-4 I think. I can't remember the exact quote one of the civilians said but something along the lines of "it would take an act of Congress to get us fired." They did minimal teaching and just sat there making fun of trainees.
Typical Airforce experience. Well I can tell you my fellow civilians in the Navy that I worked with would go above and beyond to help trainees. It got exhausting trying to train people that were going to get certified anyway regardless of how well or bad they did and the the lessons we tried to impress upon them.
 
Something has to be done, at this point most facilities (I think), would rather have bodies to train instead of waiting months / years because of academy. Not justifying CTI or anything but the time is now to literally throw shit at the wall and see what happens.

Everyone wants bodies but CTIs are BARELY a step above OTS hires... You really want to send them straight to facilities where they would easily wash out? Seems like a waste of time....

CTIs going direct is the typical management knee jerk reaction that won't help short-term or even long term... Any "solution" should have been done years ago... Right now the FAA is trying to scramble to find solutions that should have been done years ago.
 
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