GulfBravoPapa
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*retired, medically retired, and quit.. only one quit the agency.
Pushed to the brink? Another NYT article rehashes all the problems that haven't changed since before Reagan and PATCO
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TimShady
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Yeah but you’re not offering any ideas. Some would make it just fine. I’m talking terminal side, especially tower. Maybe still do RTF if/when the reach that point.
The other benefit would be the crazy idea of actually telling people where they’ll be working before they accept the job. The way the FAA hires and places people in this job as absolutely asinine.
jorgeluis161
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Ideas should have been thought of in 2012... 11 years the FAA knew this day would come. They haven't done shit. The CTI idea is a terrible one. An idea that would not pay off any dividends in the short term or the long term.
Your 2nd point you are spot on... They need to do like they did when I got hired in 2013. The way they do it now is an absolute joke.
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It is not what I want but a fact of what the FAA is going to do. I concur, a real solution should have been done years ago, but SES's/upper management has always wanted a band-aid solution so they could make it to retirement or the next step up so that this would be someone else's problem. If we tackled the problem head on as a society (naïve I know) instead of kicking the can down the road we could make some real progress, but alas...
CoffeeIV takes are the worst takes.
The "tens of thousands of applicants" argument is tiresome, and worthless. The job pays a lot more than BestBuy and 7-11 so of course people apply..it doesn't mean they have the aptitude or the ability. Anyone that's a qualified candidate would go to a career that pays better, or has better QOL, or both. You obviously haven't been around very long because the trainees 10 years ago versus those walking in the door now are vastly different. There's a reason we're washing so many these days...they suck. If you brought the pay up high enough that you attracted top candidates, I bet you'd also certify both a higher % of them, but in a significantly faster time.
Clearly the FAA needs help. When I was going through, one of my classmates was a Bulgarian Captain. We are sending friendly foreign nations through it. I'd rather have that slot filled by a new hire for the FAA when we're in the middle of a staffing crisis. I thought the AF tech school did a decent job teaching fundamentals and basics before reaching my first facility. I also bet people would probably elect to go to Biloxi, MS over OKC.
32andBelow
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CTI where the kids had to actually learn about the job and get some skin in the game. Or McDonald’s/reddit AMA. Hmm
One of the reasons it’s hard for us to negotiate is we make it look like anyone could do the job with these insane hiring qualifications
If you get your private pilots license from a university you still need to pass an FAA check ride. So I don’t see why there can’t be FAA screens built into the programs.
One of the reasons it’s hard for us to negotiate is we make it look like anyone could do the job with these insane hiring qualifications
If you get your private pilots license from a university you still need to pass an FAA check ride. So I don’t see why there can’t be FAA screens built into the programs.
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You could pay me enough to go to OKC for a couple years. You could never pay me enough to spend any time in Biloxi Mississippi again.
I said this in the original thread about FAA sending CTIs direct but Ill say it here too. I went to ASU's CTI and I felt like the tracon class was actually pretty good at preparing you the same way RTF does. They simulate P50 instead of AAC but it's still run pretty similar with SIDs and STARs just no departure gates to vector to, and they run satellite arrivals but only 1 instead of 4. They use a pretty accurate STARS sim and even have the shitty ABC keyboards.
The tower class though? That didnt help me much at all for the academy and my real tower. They simulate PHX so no pattern, no diverging course departures, no intersection departures. Anyone from ASU who goes direct to terminal is gonna be pretty behind the curve in the tower. The only real leg up they'd have would be having learned the rules already in the lecture class but they'll have no "doing it" kind of foundation. Sending them direct to 4-7 isn't going to have them as prepared as if they'd gone to the academy.
The tower class though? That didnt help me much at all for the academy and my real tower. They simulate PHX so no pattern, no diverging course departures, no intersection departures. Anyone from ASU who goes direct to terminal is gonna be pretty behind the curve in the tower. The only real leg up they'd have would be having learned the rules already in the lecture class but they'll have no "doing it" kind of foundation. Sending them direct to 4-7 isn't going to have them as prepared as if they'd gone to the academy.
AB19
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Teaching tracon at at CTI joke is dumb as fuck when you have way more likely of a chance to get hired as Enroute and Terminal, and teaching approach is dumb because N90 only just started taking people from the OTS bid again like last year. Schools like the one you went to are the problem with CTI and why the FAA needs to have standards. Teaching people dumb shit like PHX tower and P50 doesnt help them at their first facility or the academy
I kinda disagree with your take on them teaching approach in general being a joke because terminal does include up/ downs, but I do agree they shouldn't be teaching PHX, maybe not P50 either. At least with the tracon class you pretty much learn the same thing as RTF. I would honestly say ASUs tracon class is essentially RTF just different airspace you learn basically the same thing.
Im guessing they teach PHX because the TSS they had was given to them by PHX when they got a new sim and Im assuming it already had the PHX files on it. Also when I took the class it was taught by a retired PHX controller but he retired after I took the class and was replaced by a guy from BUR. Maybe he changed things idk
Mike Kilo
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I assume when they do this they are going to have to revise training programs to a CTI Non Acedmy Grad and give them extra classroom, simulator/hours. Would be just fine at low level facilities where I assume they will be placed.
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Even IF the CTI programs were amazing at prepping ATC trainees. Who wants to pick up 60k in student loans for a 50% washout rate and a 3-5 year CPC timeline to make less than a traveling nurse or if your an aviation geek 1/2 of what a pilots making.
There’s idiots that are dumb enough to pay I’m him
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Don’t worry I’m sure NATCA is working on getting student loan forgiveness for ATC’s with CTI degrees with the most labor friendly administration in history. Just keep maxing out your PAC contributions brothers and sisters.
lol same. Good thing I managed to pay my loan off
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Every single time, no one cares about how you were hired. No one cares what personal choices you took to get to this career because the military was not available to everyone. Staffing is in crisis, solutions are needed and we are desperate.
acutetriangles
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I hope you don’t bet money on things then.
Top5fatcat
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jorgeluis161
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Desperate yes... Desperate enough to have CTIs who aren't prepared and have no clue and come from a shit ass school who doesn't prepare them for actual 4-7 VFR towers... Terrible idea
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