Pushed to the brink? Another NYT article rehashes all the problems that haven't changed since before Reagan and PATCO

[32andBelow]

Its the federal government. You got to prove your requirements have something to do with the job. You'd have to pick qualities that have proof of being meaningful to air traffic. The typical gatekeeping elitist bullshit (educational attainment, CTI degree) has no actual statistical backing for air traffic success.

We had the BioQ but everybody cried about that.

It’s not elitist to require more than just a high school diploma.

Yes everyone cried about a personality test picking if you were qualified. The bioQ might as well have been picking via horoscope

 

[Flashy Vectors]

It’s not elitist to require more than just a high school diploma.

Yes everyone cried about a personality test picking if you were qualified. The bioQ might as well have been picking via horoscope

Pay controllers more, my neighbors an electrician and makes more then me.

 

[AlmostEligible]

No I'm talking about foreign military controllers in our tech school.

Yeah, and I'm saying it's similar to the foreign military pilots that learned how to fly at my Army base. Both foreign military aviation learning from the US military.

Desperate yes... Desperate enough to have CTIs who aren't prepared and have no clue and come from a shit ass school who doesn't prepare them for actual 4-7 VFR towers... Terrible idea

Still better then getting almost no one which what's happening now

 

[32andBelow]

L

Pay controllers more, my neighbors an electrician and makes more than me.

Probably Also went to trade school

 

[Soul_Controller]

L

Probably Also went to trade school

Also works longer hours and can die on the job.
Don't get me wrong. I think we need a raise but some of you are out here either reinventing the wheel trying to solve structural problems with hiring or just plain out of touch with having a real job

 

[ATC Zero]

L

Probably Also went to trade school

You can go to trade school and have it paid for and paid apprenticeship, they are short
On trades people too.
I don’t see your point.

 

[32andBelow]

You can go to trade school and have it paid for and paid apprenticeship, they are short
On trades people too.
I don’t see your point.

So why are people so against the trade school for atc? You should have to show some interest in the job beyond just working at wal mart and reading a Reddit ama

 

[Soul_Controller]

So why are people so against the trade school for atc? You should have to show some interest in the job beyond just working at wal mart and reading a Reddit ama

Because realistically, academy is the trade school

 

[32andBelow]

Because realistically, academy is the trade school

No it’s the start of OJT

 

[Top5fatcat]

So why are people so against the trade school for atc? You should have to show some interest in the job beyond just working at wal mart and reading a Reddit ama

Dude what is your actual point on this? Why do you keep saying shit like Wal*Mart worker and McDonald's worker? Do you not think someone who can run the grill area at McDonald's or manage at a Walmart can do ATC well? If so thats a foolish take and you're wrong. You obviously know being at a center w its long training process (A-side, D-side, R-side, etc) that there is very little difference in success rate between CTI, Military, OTS. ATC certainly isnt for EVERYONE, but it is clear that you do not need an advanced degree to excel at it.

The real value in a controller is the attrition and years it takes to attain the wisdom & become a true SME who is truly good. Not just the go-to controller working the busiest pushes & not shying away from unusual circumstances, inclement weather, short staffing, etc. but being good at OJTI & CIC too, and paying that knowledge forward on A114 (mostly scams) details, Area/FAC rep duties etc. This can only be achieved through years of grinding away actually doing the job and getting better and better and often via the traditional route of leveling up (tho not always obviously). YOu must just be pissed that you owe 200k in student loans or what?

 

[32andBelow]

Dude what is your actual point on this? Why do you keep saying shit like Wal*Mart worker and McDonald's worker? Do you not think someone who can run the grill area at McDonald's or manage at a Walmart can do ATC well? If so thats a foolish take and you're wrong. You obviously know being at a center w its long training process (A-side, D-side, R-side, etc) that there is very little difference in success rate between CTI, Military, OTS. ATC certainly isnt for EVERYONE, but it is clear that you do not need an advanced degree to excel at it.

The real value in a controller is the attrition and years it takes to attain the wisdom & become a true SME who is truly good. Not just the go-to controller working the busiest pushes & not shying away from unusual circumstances, inclement weather, short staffing, etc. but being good at OJTI & CIC too, and paying that knowledge forward on A114 (mostly scams) details, Area/FAC rep duties etc. This can only be achieved through years of grinding away actually doing the job and getting better and better and often via the traditional route of leveling up (tho not always obviously). YOu must just be pissed that you owe 200k in student loans or what?

Cus if you don’t build some moats around your profession it’s harder to negotiate. That’s why the pilots are so adamant about keeping the 1200 rule they fought for

 

[Top5fatcat]

.

 

[DankVectorz]

We need more staffing!

*FAA implements something to increase amount of trainees onboarded every year*

No not like that!

This thread.

 

[32andBelow]

One thing we can agree on is the absolute need for RAZE NAU.

Its really funny that the 2 self righteous haters in that thread shitting on the prospects of a raise are both hardship scammers! One from a 5 to an 8 and one from a 7 to an 8, and yet they dare deign to rain on everyone else's parade from their low cost of living mid level ivory towers? Pshhhh some ppl

You have to feel bad they were victims of the FAA placement system which is not right. No Michael no that’s not right.

 

[CoffeeIV]

or just plain out of touch with having a real job

It's mainly this.

 

[jdatc]

How about this pay move:

To ensure controllers are better invested in understanding in the NAS I propose the following:

The FAA will pay for all employees who desire to receive the training required to attain a private pilot license. Each employee who has earned a private pilot license shall receive 25,000 bonus per year for their advanced aviation knowledge.

To further make our controllers more proficient and able to provide even better assistance in an emergency and weather situations the FAA will also pay for any controller to attain an instrument rating. Said attainment of such rating will result in an additional 25,000 bonus per year.

Not that you need these ratings to be a good controller, but at we could at least argue we need said training so we can better assist pilots in instrument conditions. Then we could better argue we need pilot like compensation.

I personally have been involved in an incident where the pilot just about stalled and spun the airplane in instrument conditions where I was playing flight instructor, though I didn’t finish that particular rating.

 

[32andBelow]

How about this pay move:

To ensure controllers are better invested in understanding in the NAS I propose the following:

The FAA will pay for all employees who desire to receive the training required to attain a private pilot license. Each employee who has earned a private pilot license shall receive 25,000 bonus per year for their advanced aviation knowledge.

To further make our controllers more proficient and able to provide even better assistance in an emergency and weather situations the FAA will also pay for any controller to attain an instrument rating. Said attainment of such rating will result in an additional 25,000 bonus per year.

Not that you need these ratings to be a good controller, but at we could at least argue we need said training so we can better assist pilots in instrument conditions. Then we could better argue we need pilot like compensation.

I personally have been involved in an incident where the pilot just about stalled and spun the airplane in instrument conditions where I was playing flight instructor, though I didn’t finish that particular rating.

Those people would just go fly and make way more 🤣

 

[AlmostEligible]

It's mainly this.

Over 30% of us are ex military. We definitely know what it's like to have a job harder than a "real" job.

Also works longer hours and can die on the job.
Don't get me wrong. I think we need a raise but some of you are out here either reinventing the wheel trying to solve structural problems with hiring or just plain out of touch with having a real job

Over 30% of us are ex military. We are more than in touch with having a "real" job. We exceeded that in the military

 

[ATC Zero]

So why are people so against the trade school for atc? You should have to show some interest in the job beyond just working at wal mart and reading a Reddit ama

I agree, people can hate on it all they want. The fact is we all came from somewhere some had a little intro to ATC some didn’t.
I think the big difference in trades vs ATC is that an electrician would be guaranteed to use the education they received where a lot of people ended up aging out before getting an offer from the FAA.

 

[32andBelow]

I agree, people can hate on it all they want. The fact is we all came from somewhere some had a little intro to ATC some didn’t.
I think the big difference in trades vs ATC is that an electrician would be guaranteed to use the education they received where a lot of people ended up aging out before getting an offer from the FAA.

This take has always been kinda bogus cus most of the CTI degrees were just aviation management/business degrees with a focus or minor in ATC