Impasse

[Golf delta]

Hey all,
We're finally finishing up our last round of leave bidding. We went to impasse, and speaking with some of my friends at other facilities it appears many others went that route as well. Ours was over leave slots - 12 tracon. Specifically over removing leave slots after the first round. How many other facilities went to impasse and what was your reason? Is there guidance coming down from higher up FAA for the ATMs to be more stubborn? We bid 6 more CPCs and ended up rolling over the same thing we had last year, which sucks.

 

[Sassyquatch]

We went impasse over our schedule. FAA didn't like the 4 10s nor the 9-9-8-7-7 our facility has been on for years. They think it created more OT at a facility that was already severely understaffed to begin with... Go figure. I believe the regional RVP went over our heads and just signed the MOU without our local wanting the deal which still sucked.

We've been told to expect hold-over for a good majority of the shifts next year for managements fuck up

 

[32andBelow]

We went impasse over our schedule. FAA didn't like the 4 10s nor the 9-9-8-7-7 our facility has been on for years. They think it created more OT at a facility that was already severely understaffed to begin with... Go figure. I believe the regional RVP went over our heads and just signed the MOU without our local wanting the deal which still sucked.

We've been told to expect hold-over for a good majority of the shifts next year for managements fuck up

Just tell them you can’t stay

 

[J8ke]

We went impasse over our schedule. FAA didn't like the 4 10s nor the 9-9-8-7-7 our facility has been on for years. They think it created more OT at a facility that was already severely understaffed to begin with... Go figure. I believe the regional RVP went over our heads and just signed the MOU without our local wanting the deal which still sucked.

We've been told to expect hold-over for a good majority of the shifts next year for managements fuck up

Had almost the opposite experience here where a NATCA higher up really went to bat for our facility and held our district accountable to honor a schedule that was agreed to locally. Month long process

 

[FightingIrish2012]

We went impasse over our schedule. FAA didn't like the 4 10s nor the 9-9-8-7-7 our facility has been on for years. They think it created more OT at a facility that was already severely understaffed to begin with... Go figure. I believe the regional RVP went over our heads and just signed the MOU without our local wanting the deal which still sucked.

We've been told to expect hold-over for a good majority of the shifts next year for managements fuck up

Hold over is great unless you are also on 6 day weeks. Imagine working 9-10 hours a few days a week. In the private sector, highly paid white collar jobs do that everyday, and they are salaried so they get no extra pay. If your getting 8 hours a PP in hold over, it’s a OT a check and once you get used to it you won’t even notice it.

 

[Periculant]

Hold over is great unless you are also on 6 day weeks. Imagine working 9-10 hours a few days a week. In the private sector, highly paid white collar jobs do that everyday, and they are salaried so they get no extra pay. If your getting 8 hours a PP in hold over, it’s a OT a check and once you get used to it you won’t even notice it.

"highly paid white collar jobs" Yeah like computer engineers who make $1.2-$3Million a year. Unbelievable that Facebook and Microsoft would expect someone who is on a multi-million dollar compensation package to work to project completion...

I'd rather the agency not pay us overtime and change our salaries to "highly paid white collar jobs" and compensate us $1.2 Million - $3 Million a year.

If the agency paid us $100 an hour every hour of every day 24/7/365 we would make $876,000 still less than these "highly paid white collar jobs" who are normally working 40 hours a week.

 

[Tater_Toad]

We intend to go to impasse next year if certain rumors are true.

 

[DankVectorz]

"highly paid white collar jobs" Yeah like computer engineers who make $1.2-$3Million a year. Unbelievable that Facebook and Microsoft would expect someone who is on a multi-million dollar compensation package to work to project completion...

I'd rather the agency not pay us overtime and change our salaries to "highly paid white collar jobs" and compensate us $1.2 Million - $3 Million a year.

If the agency paid us $100 an hour every hour of every day 24/7/365 we would make $876,000 still less than these "highly paid white collar jobs" who are normally working 40 hours a week.

Where are you getting these numbers? Median computer engineer salary at FB $148k, Microsoft $189k and at Google it’s $121k and 60+ hour weeks are common.

https://www.ziprecruiter.com/Salaries/Facebook-Software-Engineer-Salary--in-New-York#:~:text=While%20ZipRecruiter%20is%20seeing%20salaries,%24224%2C276%20annually%20in%20New%20York.

https://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/Microsoft-Computer-Engineer-Salaries-E1651_D_KO10,27.htm#:~:text=%24189K&text=The%20estimated%20total%20pay%20for,pay%20is%20%24147%2C497%20per%20year.

https://www.ziprecruiter.com/Salaries/Computer-Engineering-Google-Salary

 

[Deuce]

Where are you getting these numbers? Median computer engineer salary at FB $148k and at Google it’s $121k and 60+ hour weeks are common.

https://www.ziprecruiter.com/Salaries/Facebook-Software-Engineer-Salary--in-New-York#:~:text=While%20ZipRecruiter%20is%20seeing%20salaries,%24224%2C276%20annually%20in%20New%20York.

https://www.ziprecruiter.com/Salaries/Computer-Engineering-Google-Salary

Okay well what about the Zamboni drivers and the "accountants" at the trump foundation making 2.3-17 billion per year? I would happily work a salaried position for 2.3-17 billion per year. You could get paid in gum every day for the rest of your life and never make enough gum to equal how much gum Donald Trump's Zamboni driver can buy

 

[Dolan]

Where are you getting these numbers? Median computer engineer salary at FB $148k, Microsoft $189k and at Google it’s $121k and 60+ hour weeks are common.

https://www.ziprecruiter.com/Salaries/Facebook-Software-Engineer-Salary--in-New-York#:~:text=While%20ZipRecruiter%20is%20seeing%20salaries,%24224%2C276%20annually%20in%20New%20York.

https://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/Microsoft-Computer-Engineer-Salaries-E1651_D_KO10,27.htm#:~:text=%24189K&text=The%20estimated%20total%20pay%20for,pay%20is%20%24147%2C497%20per%20year.

https://www.ziprecruiter.com/Salaries/Computer-Engineering-Google-Salary

Here's the real numbers if anyone actually cares:

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www.levels.fyi

We went impasse over our schedule. FAA didn't like the 4 10s nor the 9-9-8-7-7 our facility has been on for years. They think it created more OT at a facility that was already severely understaffed to begin with... Go figure. I believe the regional RVP went over our heads and just signed the MOU without our local wanting the deal which still sucked.

We've been told to expect hold-over for a good majority of the shifts next year for managements fuck up

I think I know your RVP and offer my condolences. I'd avoid escalating anything to that level if you're expecting any favorable outcomes. That entire region is due for a reckoning and step 1 is getting rid of that lazy ass RVP

 

[Phillytroll69]

We bid 6 more CPCs and ended up rolling over the same thing we had last year, which sucks.

Yes we also have more people but weren't allowed to have has many weekend slots because so many people were banging out Saturday they needed to boost midweek numbers.

We also bid more and LOST summer leave slots.

 

[Raise when?]

Where are you getting these numbers? Median computer engineer salary at FB $148k, Microsoft $189k and at Google it’s $121k and 60+ hour weeks are common.

https://www.ziprecruiter.com/Salaries/Facebook-Software-Engineer-Salary--in-New-York#:~:text=While%20ZipRecruiter%20is%20seeing%20salaries,%24224%2C276%20annually%20in%20New%20York.

https://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/Microsoft-Computer-Engineer-Salaries-E1651_D_KO10,27.htm#:~:text=%24189K&text=The%20estimated%20total%20pay%20for,pay%20is%20%24147%2C497%20per%20year.

https://www.ziprecruiter.com/Salaries/Computer-Engineering-Google-Salary

I agree but don’t forget the stocks. When you get stock involved, these guys can easily become multimillionaires in a few years

 

[Phillytroll69]

I agree but don’t forget the stocks. When you get stock involved, these guys can easily become multimillionaires in a few years

And crypto too obviously these 1337 haxxors xd know a ton of us why isnt anyone using the Brite computer to farm shitcoins

 

[FightingIrish2012]

We intend to go to impasse next year if certain rumors are true.

By we do you mean your facility or NATCA as a whole regarding the contract?

 

[Soul_Controller]

Impasse is usually a terrible idea. I can possibly see doing it in the situation with district interference and a higher level game being played. Otherwise you're probably going to get fucked on impasse.

 

[Sassyquatch]

Hold over is great unless you are also on 6 day weeks. Imagine working 9-10 hours a few days a week. In the private sector, highly paid white collar jobs do that everyday, and they are salaried so they get no extra pay. If your getting 8 hours a PP in hold over, it’s a OT a check and once you get used to it you won’t even notice it.

No, it isnt. We've been on 6 day work weeks for over a year w no end in sight. No one wants hold over on top of all the OT we already work. The average at our facility is at least 300 hrs of OT for 2023 and several people are in the 500 hour range. One guy has over 900.

Management thinks we want the OT and truly believe we're manipulating the schedule to get more of it. 80% of us are on the no list.

 

[Kramer]

Hold over is great unless you are also on 6 day weeks. Imagine working 9-10 hours a few days a week. In the private sector, highly paid white collar jobs do that everyday, and they are salaried so they get no extra pay. If your getting 8 hours a PP in hold over, it’s a OT a check and once you get used to it you won’t even notice it.

Thats your opinion. I think holdover sucks. I can't and won't manage my day to day based on getting held over because this agency can't or won't staff appropriately. But that's my opinion.

I got a life outside of work.

 

[AnyTrafficPleaseAdvise]

Thats your opinion. I think holdover sucks. I can't and won't manage my day to day based on getting held over because this agency can't or won't staff appropriately. But that's my opinion.

I got a life outside of work.

Holdover is garbage, and it’s bogus more people don’t tell their managers to kick rocks when they assign it. If I’m scheduled 8, I’m not working an extra 2 unless I want to. We all have lives outside the FAA that are more important than the FAA. Holdover OT completely disregards that.

 

[rugbydog11]

The beauty of 4-10s.... No holdover... But that literally turns into 6-10s pretty quick.

 

[Move78]

Big increase in MOU impasse this year. Seems like management made a concerted effort from upon high to punish the BU as a response to their own terrible staffing processes. We’re going to fuck you on staffing for the 10th straight year and because we did that now we’re also going to strip all your MOUs to dogshit. Win win for us cuz you idiots will just blame your union anyway.