2026 BWS

[Gauff]

I’ll gladly work alternating 3/12 and 4/12s each week or 2/24s a week if you want to go the “that’s the way other shift work jobs do it” route. I just have no interest in working straight swings for the next 12 years.

And I don’t care about my days off.

There are almost no shift work jobs that do that outside of firefighters. The vast majority of all shift work jobs work either straight swings, straight days, or straight mids. The fact that we kill ourselves with the rattler is insane. And we obviously can't do 24hr shifts or 12hr shifts because that's obviously not safe. I do believe we need to be on a 32hr work week though for fatigue mitigation

 

[Redacted]

There are almost no shift work jobs that do that outside of firefighters. The vast majority of all shift work jobs work either straight swings, straight days, or straight mids. The fact that we kill ourselves with the rattler is insane. And we obviously can't do 24hr shifts or 12hr shifts because that's obviously not safe. I do believe we need to be on a 32hr work week though for fatigue mitigation

Police regularly alternate 3/12 and 4/12 weeks. 4 hours of OT biweekly.

 

[32andBelow]

There are almost no shift work jobs that do that outside of firefighters. The vast majority of all shift work jobs work either straight swings, straight days, or straight mids. The fact that we kill ourselves with the rattler is insane. And we obviously can't do 24hr shifts or 12hr shifts because that's obviously not safe. I do believe we need to be on a 32hr work week though for fatigue mitigation

You can start by seeing what the other countries do for ATC. No one does what you’re describing

 

[Redacted]

You can start by seeing what the other countries do for ATC. No one does what you’re describing

Australia has rotating days off. Senior people here would never give up their precious Friday Saturday off.

 

[32andBelow]

Australia has rotating days off. Senior people here would never give up their precious Friday Saturday off.

They would if it was like 3 on 3 off or something like that

 

[Gauff]

Police regularly alternate 3/12 and 4/12 weeks. 4 hours of OT biweekly.

I'm aware.... There are very few if any jobs that run schedules like that. Firefighters being one of them.

12hr shifts are not safe for our specific job and he'll 10hr shifts are almost too much some days.

You can start by seeing what the other countries do for ATC. No one does what you’re describing

Yeah I know. Mainly because straight mids aren't practical for our job either due to lack of actual currency.

But to say straight shifts don't work for family life while a large portion of the country makes it work is disingenuous imo (obviously weekends off and day shifts are easier though, but it's shift work). I just prefer not to end up in an early grave and I'll make my schedule work

 

[32andBelow]

Yeah I know. Mainly because straight mids aren't practical for our job either due to lack of actual currency.

But to say straight shifts don't work for family life while a large portion of the country makes it work is disingenuous imo (obviously weekends off and day shifts are easier though, but it's shift work). I just prefer not to end up in an early grave and I'll make my schedule work

We did straight shifts this year but we do split 4 10s for the mid people. It’s been good

 

[Gauff]

We did straight shifts this year but we do split 4 10s for the mid people. It’s been good

I wish we had the 4 10s or straight shifts. We have the rattler from hell

 

[32andBelow]

I wish we had the 4 10s or straight shifts. We have the rattler from hell

They can’t make you work more than 8 hours unless you agree

 

[Gauff]

They can’t make you work more than 8 hours unless you agree

Yeah but if you don't agree to the AWS (rattler) then you're on the BWS where management can assign you any 8hr shift they want throughout the week with zero consistency from week to week so long as it abides by crew rest rules

 

[32andBelow]

Yeah but if you don't agree to the AWS (rattler) then you're on the BWS where management can assign you any 8hr shift they want throughout the week with zero consistency from week to week so long as it abides by crew rest rules

No they can’t. That’s bullshit. If your whole group said enough is enough they still have to negotiate a schedule.

 

[Gauff]

No they can’t. That’s bullshit. If your whole group said enough is enough they still have to negotiate a schedule.

Well yeah if we negotiate something other than the rattler for an AWS but if you don't accept the AWS you're at the whim of the agency for how they want to schedule you week to week.

We're starting to get more younger controllers that are against the rattler so maybe one day we'll be able to negotiate at least a few lines of straight shifts

 

[Redacted]

I'm aware.... There are very few if any jobs that run schedules like that. Firefighters being one of them.

12hr shifts are not safe for our specific job and he'll 10hr shifts are almost too much some days.

The length of the shift pales in comparison to having to work them 6 days a week to me.

 

[Geeare27]

Well yeah if we negotiate something other than the rattler for an AWS but if you don't accept the AWS you're at the whim of the agency for how they want to schedule you week to week.

What? You always get to bid. They have to negotiate a schedule and they have to let you bid it even if you turn down an AWS

 

[Gauff]

The length of the shift pales in comparison to having to work them 6 days a week to me.

I agree that personally I'd prefer to work 4 days a week just for a longer period but when it's been a busy day, which are most where I am, then you are significantly less capable at the end of a 10hr shift. It's just more dangerous and less safe for us to work beyond 12hrs.

I would also like to just suffer through a longer shift for the quality of life of more days off though. And honestly at a lot of facilities that might be possible if they aren't crazy busy all the time 🤷‍♂️

What? You always get to bid. They have to negotiate a schedule and they have to let you bid it even if you turn down an AWS

The negotiated schedule is the AWS schedule. Whether it's a line of 4 10s or the rattler or straight shifts. My facility only negotiated the rattler and if you turn that down you are on the BWS schedule which is spelled out in the contract as just a shift that is scheduled for 8hrs 5 days a week. As long as you are scheduled within the crew rest limits and your RDOs then they can assign whatever shift to you throughout the week and it can change week to week as they need.

That's what we were told from the district level. Whether that's true or not idk and I haven't read up on that section of the contract thoroughly.

 

[Geeare27]

The negotiated schedule is the AWS schedule. Whether it's a line of 4 10s or the rattler or straight shifts. My facility only negotiated the rattler and if you turn that down you are on the BWS schedule which is spelled out in the contract as just a shift that is scheduled for 8hrs 5 days a week. As long as you are scheduled within the crew rest limits and your RDOs then they can assign whatever shift to you throughout the week and it can change week to week as they need.

That's what we were told from the district level. Whether that's true or not idk and I haven't read up on that section of the contract thoroughly.

Your explanation doesn't make any sense but it's possible you're just misunderstanding the situation and explaining it badly. You should read the contract though. Don't blindly trust people to do it correctly

 

[32andBelow]

Well yeah if we negotiate something other than the rattler for an AWS but if you don't accept the AWS you're at the whim of the agency for how they want to schedule you week to week.

We're starting to get more younger controllers that are against the rattler so maybe one day we'll be able to negotiate at least a few lines of straight shifts

You

The negotiated schedule is the AWS schedule. Whether it's a line of 4 10s or the rattler or straight shifts. My facility only negotiated the rattler and if you turn that down you are on the BWS schedule which is spelled out in the contract as just a shift that is scheduled for 8hrs 5 days a week. As long as you are scheduled within the crew rest limits and your RDOs then they can assign whatever shift to you throughout the week and it can change week to week as they need.

That's what we were told from the district level. Whether that's true or not idk and I haven't read up on that section of the contract thoroughly.

that’s not true. They can’t just give you any schedule that want. Your rep is gaslighting you

 

[Gauff]

You

that’s not true. They can’t just give you any schedule that want. Your rep is gaslighting you

Idk thats what our ATM and district level FAA have told us 🤷‍♂️ obviously all the NATCA RVPs are useless individuals that "don't want to make the FAA mad" (as ours told me on a different issue) so we could be getting screwed idk

 

[Nothanks]

Non AWS is shit. No flex times, no credit, they can’t just assign anything they want. Still have to negotiate a line, but it would surely include some bullshit rattler shit. It’s not a good option imo. Opting into aws and working through it to get the best possible outcome is much better

 

[32andBelow]

Non AWS is shit. No flex times, no credit, they can’t just assign anything they want. Still have to negotiate a line, but it would surely include some bullshit rattler shit. It’s not a good option imo. Opting into aws and working through it to get the best possible outcome is much better

Credit is a scam. Don’t work for free

But I agree the whole area needs to come together and reject the fake rattler if they want a better option