2024 NATCA President Election

[Top5fatcat]

You don't know why people would hate on the person who hasn't done much and is also abusing their position to campaign before other people can?

So you are repeating the "before other people can" lie? Explain.

 

[ManBearPig]

lol does anyone remember a few months ago the N90 move to philly or whatever that was, some dude had to sue the FAA or NATCA or something and found out that both parties were in cahoots

And then Rich got pissed at the guy who brought it up at convention, and proceeded to cut his time off early? Which immediately followed Rich telling everyone to take their time with statements, that everyone would get to speal, and not to worry about the clock? Yeah I remember.

 

[Logical_Mongoose]

If we really have no power as a union, then what's the point?

I know this is taboo to even talk about to most people. We can't strike and I'm not saying we should even think about it, but would they really fire all of us and "easily" replace us like they did during the last strike? I'm just genuinely curious. There were less rules and regulations 40 years ago, traffic has gone up significantly since then, and I've even heard that military is short on air traffic controllers too (not quite sure if thats true, just heard it a couple times). What makes it illegal for us to strike and what are the repercussions of it besides being fired?

In the grand scheme of things, I think I get paid well compared to what jobs I could've gotten straight out of college. And our benefits are an added plus to that as well as job security. But for a job like this that has no local hiring and forces people to BFE away from family with very few ways to get back home is crazy. Then add on our staffing shortage, all the OT, and how some people cant afford to live at their lower level facility in HCOL areas. Without OT, I couldn't afford to buy a house in the city I live in. That says a lot

The way they staff facilities right now is not "good enough" anymore. Year by year, the staffing shortage is getting worse and it's scary to think about where we could be in 5 or 10 years. How many facilities had to close sectors this summer? How many facilities have had people straight up quit or planning to quit soon? WHY isn't NATCA using the media to get the truth out? No strikes, no bargaining power?, so why not utilize the media to show how bad things are going to get? The FAA can't keep boasting "the safest airspace in the world" with how fatigued, overworked, and underpaid their controllers are. Without us, everyone else above us in the FAA doesn't have a job.

I have some faith that maybe NATCA has something in the works behind the scenes with that survey on OT a couple months ago. I just wish we could get updated on it

Did you not read the NYT article that came out within the last month or so? It has a buzzword title but it’s an actually well researched and written article, surprisingly good journalism. It highlighted all of the staffing issues and how insane the rattler is which are all leads to the rise of ‘near misses’.
Link: Airline Close Calls Happen Far More Often Than Previously Known

There was also an investigation for the IG in June that highlighted FAAs issue of staffing facilities. The FAA in response merely acknowledged how they need to update cruART and shrugged to the staffing levels. Link: ATC Staffing | Office of Inspector General | U.S. Department of Transportation

NATCA has put out statements to the media on the FAAs ineptitude to staff facilities multiple times. The issue is FAA will never actually acknowledge they are doing a poor job. Every workforce plan and yearly media statement the FAA states they’ve “hit their hiring goal” and pats their self on the back. The ineptitude is the hiring goals are too low and they need to hire and support the academy and HR department to support hiring more then 1500 controllers on a bid with 10,000+ applying.

If NATCA is working on anything substantially beneficial to their members then they should at least be leaking that information out to keep most members in agreement to keep a unified front, if not outright disclosing their ambitions in newsletters and updates. And those ambitions should always be an overreach for what is truly wanted; that way it can be negotiated back down to what is actually wanted. I feel confident in guessing that the UAW is "demanding" a 32 hour workweek with the understanding it will be a bargaining concession they will give away to secure other important things; but by setting the bar that high it allows them room to bargain in good faith to something more agreeable.

Police officers can't legally strike either. But they can catch "blue flu" to make their grievances known, and there are numerous examples of exactly that happening.

If NATCA had the balls and willingness to *wink* absolutely not coordinate a strike action with controllers *wink* then every facility that is on mandated 6-10s could take turns catching stomach bugs from bad break-room pizza. And, by the third event of ATC-0 that drains BILLIONS of dollars from the economy, Santa could have his face plastered on every news network saying "thoughts and prayers" to the stranded travelers and that the entire situation could be remedied by addressing x-amount of issues that NATCA has been bringing attention to the FAA for years.

Those that handed out fliers during the last shutdown talked about how poorly a lot of air travelers would speak to them about being "overpaid government workers" and be verbally hostile at them. But the truth of the matter is that level of hostility is only sustainable by the public when it is an inconvenience to them; once it cripples them, then even those staunchly in the camp of "entitled government employees" are willing to say "give them whatever the hell they want." Teachers who have actually held out on their strike actions know this too well; idiot parents are mad at teachers for the first day or two of a strike, but by the time it hits a week or more of not knowing what to do with their own shitty kids, they suddenly become much more agreeable to the plight of their teachers.

 

[RomeoTangoRT]

If NATCA is working on anything substantially beneficial to their members then they should at least be leaking that information out to keep most members in agreement to keep a unified front, if not outright disclosing their ambitions in newsletters and updates. And those ambitions should always be an overreach for what is truly wanted; that way it can be negotiated back down to what is actually wanted. I feel confident in guessing that the UAW is "demanding" a 32 hour workweek with the understanding it will be a bargaining concession they will give away to secure other important things; but by setting the bar that high it allows them room to bargain in good faith to something more agreeable.

Police officers can't legally strike either. But they can catch "blue flu" to make their grievances known, and there are numerous examples of exactly that happening.

If NATCA had the balls and willingness to *wink* absolutely not coordinate a strike action with controllers *wink* then every facility that is on mandated 6-10s could take turns catching stomach bugs from bad break-room pizza. And, by the third event of ATC-0 that drains BILLIONS of dollars from the economy, Santa could have his face plastered on every news network saying "thoughts and prayers" to the stranded travelers and that the entire situation could be remedied by addressing x-amount of issues that NATCA has been bringing attention to the FAA for years.

Those that handed out fliers during the last shutdown talked about how poorly a lot of air travelers would speak to them about being "overpaid government workers" and be verbally hostile at them. But the truth of the matter is that level of hostility is only sustainable by the public when it is an inconvenience to them; once it cripples them, then even those staunchly in the camp of "entitled government employees" are willing to say "give them whatever the hell they want." Teachers who have actually held out on their strike actions know this too well; idiot parents are mad at teachers for the first day or two of a strike, but by the time it hits a week or more of not knowing what to do with their own shitty kids, they suddenly become much more agreeable to the plight of their teachers.

The irony I find in all of this, on a larger scale, is that our profession is dismissed for the simple fact that we are “entitled” government employees. That one title seemingly denounces the overwhelming nature of just how important our job is on an economical scale. Our job has massive macro importance on one hand, and on the other you have just how technical and difficult controlling is in itself. But before I get the “crab in a bucket” people in here saying “🤓 um actually ATC is easy” … yeah, for you, who does ATC every day of your life. Taking a 103 mph fastball 475ft to center field is easy for Aaron Judge but that’s his fucking job. I digress.

TL😀R Our pay is dismissed by virtually everyone under the banner of GoVeRnMeNt EmPlOyEe which is bullshit.

 

[Periculant]

But the FAA has no reason to give us a raise. Why should they give us anything? What changes (or benefits) them by giving us any raise?

We have NO power. Whether they give us a 1% or a 15% raise, nothing changes for them, so why give us anything? The airlines are raking in billion$ profits, and understaffed...they knew if they didn't satisfy their pilot workforce that a work slowdown or a strike would be crippling, so they gave them a big raise (that they can afford to pay) and both parties are happy and go about their way.

For FAA/NATCA, as much as I understand the want and the ask for a big raise (industry went up, inflation, etc), I don't see any argument that NATCA could use to give the agency a compelling reason to agree.

NATCA: "We want a raise because we deserve it!"
FAA: "Ok, lol. I'm not giving you a raise. What's your next move?"
NATCA: "..."

If someone feels differently, I'd love to hear a sound argument for how/why you could successfully negotiate a big raise with the agency?

You go to congress... The only way we will get a real and big raise is through Congress.

You have to think that a pay raise for us is likely a pay raise for all in the FAA. Every FLM, OM, ATM likely go up. The only people that probably think we don't deserve a raise are probably the highest positions in the FAA since they likely want jobs outside of the agency.

You can argue we have no power to negotiate, but why did we get guarantied raises on the Slate book. Why do we have unquestioned use of sick leave? Why do we have plenty of the things we do? If the FAA had all the power the white book would have never ended.

Aka it would have to go through congress

 

[Top5fatcat]

and is also abusing their position to campaign before other people can?

Still waiting on you to back this totally made up lie. Were you following your forum hero buddies because it sounded good to pretend someone was forbidden from campaigning? Sad.

RAZE NAU

 

[Periculant]

If we really have no power as a union, then what's the point?

I know this is taboo to even talk about to most people. We can't strike and I'm not saying we should even think about it, but would they really fire all of us and "easily" replace us like they did during the last strike? I'm just genuinely curious. There were less rules and regulations 40 years ago, traffic has gone up significantly since then, and I've even heard that military is short on air traffic controllers too (not quite sure if thats true, just heard it a couple times). What makes it illegal for us to strike and what are the repercussions of it besides being fired?

In the grand scheme of things, I think I get paid well compared to what jobs I could've gotten straight out of college. And our benefits are an added plus to that as well as job security. But for a job like this that has no local hiring and forces people to BFE away from family with very few ways to get back home is crazy. Then add on our staffing shortage, all the OT, and how some people cant afford to live at their lower level facility in HCOL areas. Without OT, I couldn't afford to buy a house in the city I live in. That says a lot

The way they staff facilities right now is not "good enough" anymore. Year by year, the staffing shortage is getting worse and it's scary to think about where we could be in 5 or 10 years. How many facilities had to close sectors this summer? How many facilities have had people straight up quit or planning to quit soon? WHY isn't NATCA using the media to get the truth out? No strikes, no bargaining power?, so why not utilize the media to show how bad things are going to get? The FAA can't keep boasting "the safest airspace in the world" with how fatigued, overworked, and underpaid their controllers are. Without us, everyone else above us in the FAA doesn't have a job.

I have some faith that maybe NATCA has something in the works behind the scenes with that survey on OT a couple months ago. I just wish we could get updated on it

If ATC went on strike they wouldn't fire us if 100% on ATC walked out. BUT if 90-95% walked out and 5-10% showed up to work... They would most likely fire the 90%.

Rich is going to get everyone a pay raise, but most of the regular haters on here will never give him credit.

I think everyone on this forum believe Rich will get everyone a raise. I truly do!

He will get ATC a 20% raise or less and call it a win.

30% is the standard and he will not meet that standard.

So you are repeating the "before other people can" lie? Explain.

When was the nomination period?

 

[HurryUpandWait]

lol does anyone remember a few months ago the N90 move to philly or whatever that was, some dude had to sue the FAA or NATCA or something and found out that both parties were in cahoots

What happened?!

 

[Logical_Mongoose]

If ATC went on strike they wouldn't fire us if 100% on ATC walked out. BUT if 90-95% walked out and 5-10% showed up to work... They would most likely fire the 90%.

Which is why, especially with staffing how it is, random "blue flu" events at varying facilities would be far more effective. You don't need a nationwide strike to get the point across, just enough random facilities coincidentally having critical staffing triggers at random intervals to where those in power couldn't predict where would be next and billions would be drained from the economy in the interim. Then (ideally) union leadership could claim ignorance, deny any kind of coordination, and stick to a concrete list of "underlying root causes" that would have to be resolved so issues like this could never stand a chance of happening again.

NATCA President to EVERY news anchor: "Honestly, most controllers are working mandatory 60 hour work weeks on a floating schedule and I would expect this sort of situation to continue to happen until congress decides to adequately fund the FAA to increase controller pay by at least 30% with a more robust yearly COLA formula, establish an additional training academy that's needed to meet the staffing needs that the flying public deserve, and rethink its stance on medical disqualifications and drug testing standards."

I mention the last item about drug testing because it is apparently being whispered that over half of all applicants coming in now are being auto-DQ'd for admitting to drug use. Pure rumor, but again it goes back to the notion about setting the bar higher and bargaining it down to a more acceptable level.

 

[Periculant]

Everything about the current leadership is shady. Our basic goals should be out in the open for all the members to see. 30-40% raise being the tip of the spear.

What is so secretive about our elections that we can't see the cliff notes?

Leadership Expectations for National Elections (Alex Navarro, NNM RVP)

The NEB voted unanimously to hear this untimely agenda item. RVP Navarro made a motion to move the discussion into closed session. The NEB unanimously approved this motion.

Directly from the NEB minutes...

Why?

 

[jdatc]

Still waiting on you to back this totally made up lie. Were you following your forum hero buddies because it sounded good to pretend someone was forbidden from campaigning? Sad.

No one is forbidden from campaigning. It’s similar to how some people misuse IMC and IFR in our work.

People are frustrated because they can’t get access to the email lists that Mick and Santa have.

NATCA even put out guidance about this in June:

Distribution of Campaign Literature by Email

• Candidates for national office may make a request to the National Election Committee for the email addresses of the members eligible to vote in the election for which they are a candidate in order to facilitate the distribution of campaign literature. Requests for members’ email addresses must be submitted by email to [email protected].

• Candidates for local office may make their request to their local election committee.

• Candidates for national office will not receive email addresses of the members eligible to vote
in the election for which they are a candidate until the close of the nomination acceptance period.

• Candidates for national office who wish to distribute campaign literature to members by email on or after January 1 of an election year for national office and prior to the close of the nomination acceptance period may submit the literature to the National Election Committee for email distribution by the National Office. Candidates’ campaign literature must be submitted by email to [email protected]. The National Office will email the campaign literature provided by the candidate to the members in the candidate’s election on the candidate’s behalf. The National Office will send a maximum of four messages per candidate until the close of the nomination acceptance period. The text of candidate literature distributed by the National Office may not exceed 200 words. The campaign literature may include one logo, but no other items may be embedded in the email. The candidate may provide links to other content as part of the 200-word text submissions.

• Candidates will be required to fill out a form acknowledging that any email addresses received from NATCA may only be used for campaign purposes during the current election cycle and will be destroyed at the conclusion of the election.

This is what people are upset about. It’s easier to get you message out with access to the list. If you have a message. But you can’t get the list until after the nomination period.

However, you could campaign for the 2027 NATCA election right now.

Speaking of which, I am announcing my candidacy for the 2027 election. I plan on building upon the successful 2024 “Raize Nau” movement.

 

[RegisteredUser]

You go to congress... The only way we will get a real and big raise is through Congress.

Yes, right now, ram in into the funding bill. Sadly, NATCA won’t even make an attempt.

 

[Top5fatcat]

No one is forbidden from campaigning.

Exactly. Agree w you 100% KJP.

If it takes a 1000 word essay to dig deep in the weeds and try to spin what they REALLY meant then their point is greatly diminished. The White House Press Secretary also "clarifies" blatant lies later on lol. If email has their panties in a bunch they could just come out and say the email shit is sketch. I dont know the truth on that but its my position that no one out in them streets gives 2 shits about email lists and most people dont read that propaganda anyway. The lie of "not allowed to campaign" was alwasy bullshit, continnues to be bullshit, and has now officially been debunked.


RAZE WEN?

 

[Periculant]

Exactly. Agree w you 100% KJP.

If it takes a 1000 word essay to dig deep in the weeds and try to spin what they REALLY meant then their point is greatly diminished. The White House Press Secretary also "clarifies" blatant lies later on lol. If email has their panties in a bunch they could just come out and say the email shit is sketch. I dont know the truth on that but its my position that no one out in them streets gives 2 shits about email lists and most people dont read that propaganda anyway. The lie of "not allowed to campaign" was alwasy bullshit, continnues to be bullshit, and has now officially been debunked.


RAZE WEN?

Not having an E-mail list is the equivalency of a USA Presidential candidate not being invited to a debate.

you are downplaying the importance of the E-mail list because you are a Rich fanboy

 

[Mike Kilo]

Not having an E-mail list is the equivalency of a USA Presidential candidate not being invited to a debate.

you are downplaying the importance of the E-mail list because you are a Rich fanboy

Or only being able to run ads on PBS 😆.

 

[RomeoTangoRT]

Perfectly balanced, as the world should be.

 

[Phanatical]

And then Rich got pissed at the guy who brought it up at convention, and proceeded to cut his time off early? Which immediately followed Rich telling everyone to take their time with statements, that everyone would get to speal, and not to worry about the clock? Yeah I remember.

He was not cut off early. He exhausted his allotted time.

 

[ManBearPig]

He was not cut off early. He exhausted his allotted time.

BS. The lights were still yellow. I looked up at them as soon as Rich cut him off.

Edit: You are right, he did get cut at 2 min in the video. In person the lights were still on for a couple of seconds.

 

[Periculant]

He was not cut off early. He exhausted his allotted time.

You mean this?

NATCA Biennial Convention 2023 Video Archive

2023: 19th Biennial Convention, Fort Lauderdale Business of the Supreme Convention Body Speakers Special Features Awards Regional Roll Call

www.natca.org

R23-09 (time stamp 1:30)

"Mr. Freedman revealed that disclosing the draft memorandums in the original form could pen potential harm to NATCA's commercial interests.
The Leadership expressed deep concerns that if the true nature of the negotiations were revealed, members might become dissatisfied and consider leaving the union, Which would adversely affect out financial stability."

Who is Eugene freedman?... Special Counsel to the President

 

[Dolan]

I dont know the truth on that but its my position that no one out in them streets gives 2 shits about email lists

Then you're wrong. You've been told by multiple people on here that santa hijacking the listserv to shoot out campaign emails is bullshit and that many have a problem with it. Stop simping for these guys man it's really gross