2024 NATCA President Election

[CoffeeIV]

I couldn't agree more. Tell us what's in the works if you actually have a plan. It's all just lip service.

Union says they're aiming for 30% to the members. Now the FAA knows their goal and forces less knowing they'll undermine the union and weaken it greatly in the memberships eyes.

You don't announce your goal to your enemy. Have you people never haggled at a dealership?

 

[32andBelow]

Union says they're aiming for 30% to the members. Now the FAA knows their goal and forces less knowing they'll undermine the union and weaken it greatly in the memberships eyes.

You don't announce your goal to your enemy. Have you people never haggled at a dealership?

Eventually you have to ask for something. And the union proved they can’t be trusted to negotiate in secret.

 

[Whiskey Charlie]

Union says they're aiming for 30% to the members. Now the FAA knows their goal and forces less knowing they'll undermine the union and weaken it greatly in the memberships eyes.

You don't announce your goal to your enemy. Have you people never haggled at a dealership?

The FAA doesn’t need to help weaken the union in the memberships eyes. The union is doing a fine job of that all alone.

 

[Raise when?]

Eventually you have to ask for something. And the union proved they can’t be trusted to negotiate in secret.

they need to start blasting and ranting at the media. we can't, so they must advocate for us in a major way.

 

[D-Dub]

Union says they're aiming for 30% to the members. Now the FAA knows their goal and forces less knowing they'll undermine the union and weaken it greatly in the memberships eyes.

You don't announce your goal to your enemy. Have you people never haggled at a dealership?

As if the FAA isn't going to squander any attempt that doesn't benefit them regardless of the proposed amount

 

[ATC123]

Yeah I don't buy this in the slightest. You use any inflation calculator from 2019 with your salaries back then and a 30% raise now would be way more. Plus you ignore the 8% in annual NATCA raises and 9.9% (11.3% if you start Jan 1) of presidential raises and you're well over that.

One site claimed it was a cumulative price increase of 20.09%. We're at 22.2% of raises since Jan 1, 2019 so we're still ahead. Now our large raise in January will further that.

I think it's a good sign that Biden visited the picket lines of UAW though where theyre demanding 40%. I'm interested to see what happens with UAW. I'm getting higher expectations of what should happen now that we've seen the airline unions get around 30%, UAW asking 40%, and whatever UPS got.

But the FAA has no reason to give us a raise. Why should they give us anything? What changes (or benefits) them by giving us any raise?

We have NO power. Whether they give us a 1% or a 15% raise, nothing changes for them, so why give us anything? The airlines are raking in billion$ profits, and understaffed...they knew if they didn't satisfy their pilot workforce that a work slowdown or a strike would be crippling, so they gave them a big raise (that they can afford to pay) and both parties are happy and go about their way.

For FAA/NATCA, as much as I understand the want and the ask for a big raise (industry went up, inflation, etc), I don't see any argument that NATCA could use to give the agency a compelling reason to agree.

NATCA: "We want a raise because we deserve it!"
FAA: "Ok, lol. I'm not giving you a raise. What's your next move?"
NATCA: "..."

If someone feels differently, I'd love to hear a sound argument for how/why you could successfully negotiate a big raise with the agency?

 

[CoffeeIV]

If someone feels differently, I'd love to hear a sound argument for how/why you could successfully negotiate a big raise with the agency?

You have to think that a pay raise for us is likely a pay raise for all in the FAA. Every FLM, OM, ATM likely go up. The only people that probably think we don't deserve a raise are probably the highest positions in the FAA since they likely want jobs outside of the agency.

You can argue we have no power to negotiate, but why did we get guarantied raises on the Slate book. Why do we have unquestioned use of sick leave? Why do we have plenty of the things we do? If the FAA had all the power the white book would have never ended.

 

[ChuckNovember]

Union says they're aiming for 30% to the members. Now the FAA knows their goal and forces less knowing they'll undermine the union and weaken it greatly in the memberships eyes.

You don't announce your goal to your enemy. Have you people never haggled at a dealership?

I use interest-based communication to collaborate with dealerships 🥰

 

[HurryUpandWait]

You have to think that a pay raise for us is likely a pay raise for all in the FAA. Every FLM, OM, ATM likely go up. The only people that probably think we don't deserve a raise are probably the highest positions in the FAA since they likely want jobs outside of the agency.

You can argue we have no power to negotiate, but why did we get guarantied raises on the Slate book. Why do we have unquestioned use of sick leave? Why do we have plenty of the things we do? If the FAA had all the power the white book would have never ended.

Y’all have unquestioned use of sick leave?

 

[ATC123]

You have to think that a pay raise for us is likely a pay raise for all in the FAA. Every FLM, OM, ATM likely go up. The only people that probably think we don't deserve a raise are probably the highest positions in the FAA since they likely want jobs outside of the agency.

You can argue we have no power to negotiate, but why did we get guarantied raises on the Slate book. Why do we have unquestioned use of sick leave? Why do we have plenty of the things we do? If the FAA had all the power the white book would have never ended.

Why did we get guaranteed Raises in the Slate book? Because it was a very easy negotiating point, the 1.6% Slate Book Raises aren't some random thing unique to the Slate Book or FAA. They are the equivalent raise that all other Federal Employees get on the GS scale. 1.6% is an annualized version of the Step Raises across the GS scale.

So it wasn't even really a negotiating win, merely a "hey, can you make us get the same raises as GS employees?"

 

[Sassyquatch]

If we really have no power as a union, then what's the point?

I know this is taboo to even talk about to most people. We can't strike and I'm not saying we should even think about it, but would they really fire all of us and "easily" replace us like they did during the last strike? I'm just genuinely curious. There were less rules and regulations 40 years ago, traffic has gone up significantly since then, and I've even heard that military is short on air traffic controllers too (not quite sure if thats true, just heard it a couple times). What makes it illegal for us to strike and what are the repercussions of it besides being fired?

In the grand scheme of things, I think I get paid well compared to what jobs I could've gotten straight out of college. And our benefits are an added plus to that as well as job security. But for a job like this that has no local hiring and forces people to BFE away from family with very few ways to get back home is crazy. Then add on our staffing shortage, all the OT, and how some people cant afford to live at their lower level facility in HCOL areas. Without OT, I couldn't afford to buy a house in the city I live in. That says a lot

The way they staff facilities right now is not "good enough" anymore. Year by year, the staffing shortage is getting worse and it's scary to think about where we could be in 5 or 10 years. How many facilities had to close sectors this summer? How many facilities have had people straight up quit or planning to quit soon? WHY isn't NATCA using the media to get the truth out? No strikes, no bargaining power?, so why not utilize the media to show how bad things are going to get? The FAA can't keep boasting "the safest airspace in the world" with how fatigued, overworked, and underpaid their controllers are. Without us, everyone else above us in the FAA doesn't have a job.

I have some faith that maybe NATCA has something in the works behind the scenes with that survey on OT a couple months ago. I just wish we could get updated on it

 

[SunnyATC]

I want the Union to negotiate a voluntary buyout for our pension. The airlines industry gains are because of a labor shortage. The industry drove away pilots because of pay and work conditions and ended up in a labor shortage. Most controllers feel they can’t walk away from this job because they need to stick it out to age 50 or take a massive financial hit. People are overworked and burned out. Let them leave with fair value for the pension they have accrued.

 

[Redacted]

Why did we get guaranteed Raises in the Slate book? Because it was a very easy negotiating point, the 1.6% Slate Book Raises aren't some random thing unique to the Slate Book or FAA. They are the equivalent raise that all other Federal Employees get on the GS scale. 1.6% is an annualized version of the Step Raises across the GS scale.

So it wasn't even really a negotiating win, merely a "hey, can you make us get the same raises as GS employees?"

Mick actually already showed our raises are worse than the GS scale because the GS scale front loads the raises

 

[SwampDonkey]

If we really have no power as a union, then what's the point?

I know this is taboo to even talk about to most people. We can't strike and I'm not saying we should even think about it, but would they really fire all of us and "easily" replace us like they did during the last strike? I'm just genuinely curious. There were less rules and regulations 40 years ago, traffic has gone up significantly since then, and I've even heard that military is short on air traffic controllers too (not quite sure if thats true, just heard it a couple times). What makes it illegal for us to strike and what are the repercussions of it besides being fired?

Especially with Sleepy Joe out there on the UAW picket line. The chances the workforce would all get fired is near zero.

 

[HurryUpandWait]

If we really have no power as a union, then what's the point?

I know this is taboo to even talk about to most people. We can't strike and I'm not saying we should even think about it, but would they really fire all of us and "easily" replace us like they did during the last strike? I'm just genuinely curious. There were less rules and regulations 40 years ago, traffic has gone up significantly since then, and I've even heard that military is short on air traffic controllers too (not quite sure if thats true, just heard it a couple times). What makes it illegal for us to strike and what are the repercussions of it besides being fired?

In the grand scheme of things, I think I get paid well compared to what jobs I could've gotten straight out of college. And our benefits are an added plus to that as well as job security. But for a job like this that has no local hiring and forces people to BFE away from family with very few ways to get back home is crazy. Then add on our staffing shortage, all the OT, and how some people cant afford to live at their lower level facility in HCOL areas. Without OT, I couldn't afford to buy a house in the city I live in. That says a lot

The way they staff facilities right now is not "good enough" anymore. Year by year, the staffing shortage is getting worse and it's scary to think about where we could be in 5 or 10 years. How many facilities had to close sectors this summer? How many facilities have had people straight up quit or planning to quit soon? WHY isn't NATCA using the media to get the truth out? No strikes, no bargaining power?, so why not utilize the media to show how bad things are going to get? The FAA can't keep boasting "the safest airspace in the world" with how fatigued, overworked, and underpaid their controllers are. Without us, everyone else above us in the FAA doesn't have a job.

I have some faith that maybe NATCA has something in the works behind the scenes with that survey on OT a couple months ago. I just wish we could get updated on it

Did you not read the NYT article that came out within the last month or so? It has a buzzword title but it’s an actually well researched and written article, surprisingly good journalism. It highlighted all of the staffing issues and how insane the rattler is which are all leads to the rise of ‘near misses’.
Link: Airline Close Calls Happen Far More Often Than Previously Known

There was also an investigation for the IG in June that highlighted FAAs issue of staffing facilities. The FAA in response merely acknowledged how they need to update cruART and shrugged to the staffing levels. Link: ATC Staffing | Office of Inspector General | U.S. Department of Transportation

NATCA has put out statements to the media on the FAAs ineptitude to staff facilities multiple times. The issue is FAA will never actually acknowledge they are doing a poor job. Every workforce plan and yearly media statement the FAA states they’ve “hit their hiring goal” and pats their self on the back. The ineptitude is the hiring goals are too low and they need to hire and support the academy and HR department to support hiring more then 1500 controllers on a bid with 10,000+ applying.

 

[D-Dub]

Did you not read the NYT article that came out within the last month or so? It has a buzzword title but it’s an actually well researched and written article, surprisingly good journalism. It highlighted all of the staffing issues and how insane the rattler is which are all leads to the rise of ‘near misses’.
Link: Airline Close Calls Happen Far More Often Than Previously Known

There was also an investigation for the IG in June that highlighted FAAs issue of staffing facilities. The FAA in response merely acknowledged how they need to update cruART and shrugged to the staffing levels. Link: ATC Staffing | Office of Inspector General | U.S. Department of Transportation

NATCA has put out statements to the media on the FAAs ineptitude to staff facilities multiple times. The issue is FAA will never actually acknowledge they are doing a poor job. Every workforce plan and yearly media statement the FAA states they’ve “hit their hiring goal” and pats their self on the back. The ineptitude is the hiring goals are too low and they need to hire and support the academy and HR department to support hiring more then 1500 controllers on a bid with 10,000+ applying.

Also, let's not forget it's their own staffing goals, which they set, that they are unable to meet. So yeah, some real irony in hitting their hiring goal 😂

 

[Somenewguy]

I want the Union to negotiate a voluntary buyout for our pension. The airlines industry gains are because of a labor shortage. The industry drove away pilots because of pay and work conditions and ended up in a labor shortage. Most controllers feel they can’t walk away from this job because they need to stick it out to age 50 or take a massive financial hit. People are overworked and burned out. Let them leave with fair value for the pension they have accrued.

You can get your FERS contributions cashed out when you quit, or wait and apply for a deferred retirement for your years of service.

 

[Top5fatcat]

But the FAA has no reason to give us a raise. Why should they give us anything? What changes (or benefits) them by giving us any raise?

We have NO power. Whether they give us a 1% or a 15% raise, nothing changes for them, so why give us anything? The airlines are raking in billion$ profits, and understaffed...they knew if they didn't satisfy their pilot workforce that a work slowdown or a strike would be crippling, so they gave them a big raise (that they can afford to pay) and both parties are happy and go about their way.

For FAA/NATCA, as much as I understand the want and the ask for a big raise (industry went up, inflation, etc), I don't see any argument that NATCA could use to give the agency a compelling reason to agree.

NATCA: "We want a raise because we deserve it!"
FAA: "Ok, lol. I'm not giving you a raise. What's your next move?"
NATCA: "..."

If someone feels differently, I'd love to hear a sound argument for how/why you could successfully negotiate a big raise with the agency?

You are wrong. NATCA has leverage when it come to asking for a raise. Above and beyond the PAC (which punches above its weight on Capitol Hill in $$$ for a small Union) we have the airliners openly feuding w & screaming at the FAA in countless recent media stories. For anyone who might not know, the airlines de facto run the agency. Former FAA administrators, ATO Chiefs, etc. end up on their boards. The airlines have been noticeably critical of the agency recently when it comes to ATC and all the delays and cancellations. What do you think got all the ERRs expedited to ZJX? If you don't think NATCA has leverage wait until you see what happens in any relatively prolonged shutdown next week, or check the history of what happened during the last one. Ground stops in DC and FL (also LGA staffing emergency) led to an immediate ending of the shutdown.

Rich is going to get everyone a pay raise, but most of the regular haters on here will never give him credit. They'll say things like "its not even legal for the other guys to campaign right now!" Or "BIG NATCA had its chance!" lol, as if Nick who teaches NATCA academy classes or Jamaal who enjoys the top of NATCA privelege in an A114 detail is NOT the epitome of Big NATCA. Whatever that means.

 

[AB19]

If we really have no power as a union, then what's the point?

I know this is taboo to even talk about to most people. We can't strike and I'm not saying we should even think about it, but would they really fire all of us and "easily" replace us like they did during the last strike? I'm just genuinely curious. There were less rules and regulations 40 years ago, traffic has gone up significantly since then, and I've even heard that military is short on air traffic controllers too (not quite sure if thats true, just heard it a couple times). What makes it illegal for us to strike and what are the repercussions of it besides being fired?

In the grand scheme of things, I think I get paid well compared to what jobs I could've gotten straight out of college. And our benefits are an added plus to that as well as job security. But for a job like this that has no local hiring and forces people to BFE away from family with very few ways to get back home is crazy. Then add on our staffing shortage, all the OT, and how some people cant afford to live at their lower level facility in HCOL areas. Without OT, I couldn't afford to buy a house in the city I live in. That says a lot

The way they staff facilities right now is not "good enough" anymore. Year by year, the staffing shortage is getting worse and it's scary to think about where we could be in 5 or 10 years. How many facilities had to close sectors this summer? How many facilities have had people straight up quit or planning to quit soon? WHY isn't NATCA using the media to get the truth out? No strikes, no bargaining power?, so why not utilize the media to show how bad things are going to get? The FAA can't keep boasting "the safest airspace in the world" with how fatigued, overworked, and underpaid their controllers are. Without us, everyone else above us in the FAA doesn't have a job.

I have some faith that maybe NATCA has something in the works behind the scenes with that survey on OT a couple months ago. I just wish we could get updated on it

Jail up to a year, fine up to a thousand dollars, both, not being able to hold a government job ever again

You are wrong. NATCA has leverage when it come to asking for a raise. Above and beyond the PAC (which punches above its weight on Capitol Hill in $$$ for a small Union) we have the airliners openly feuding w & screaming at the FAA in countless recent media stories. For anyone who might not know, the airlines de facto run the agency. Former FAA administrators, ATO Chiefs, etc. end up on their boards. The airlines have been noticeably critical of the agency recently when it comes to ATC and all the delays and cancellations. What do you think got all the ERRs expedited to ZJX? If you don't think NATCA has leverage wait until you see what happens in any relatively prolonged shutdown next week, or check the history of what happened during the last one. Ground stops in DC and FL (also LGA staffing emergency) led to an immediate ending of the shutdown.

Rich is going to get everyone a pay raise, but most of the regular haters on here will never give him credit. They'll say things like "its not even legal for the other guys to campaign right now!" Or "BIG NATCA had its chance!" lol, as if Nick who teaches NATCA academy classes or Jamaal who enjoys the epitome of NATCA privelege in an A114 detail is NOT the epitome of Big NATCA. Whatever that means.

You don't know why people would hate on the person who hasn't done much and is also abusing their position to campaign before other people can?

 

[dingalings99]

lol does anyone remember a few months ago the N90 move to philly or whatever that was, some dude had to sue the FAA or NATCA or something and found out that both parties were in cahoots