August 2025

[Bandit117]

I’d like to see stats on people leaving to get high 3 and then returning to a lower level. I’d imagine that it is a pretty low percentage based on the wide discrepancy of the pay bands. Somebody at a level 12 for 4-5 years probably won’t go max out at a level 4-5 for the rest of their career for ease of work. Especially after establishing a life where they made the most money.

Definitely not a 4-5 but if you could take most of your level 12 pay to a level 8 place like SFB, no mids, no income tax, you’d be doing pretty good and have a high QOL. Fcm used to be an 7 and their hours were like 7-9, 7-6 in the winter. Article 124 was intended to address burnout after a career working high level traffic, to be able to take it down a notch or 2 if you wanted. Only recently has it been used, as before you could always move, even out of places like n90 (rich Santa for example)

There also used to be a lot of bids out, many had pcs money attached. That was the before times, in an faa no one with less than 12 years of seniority might understand. You also have to thing that back in the day our pay was worth something. 130-150k to max out the band at a level 7-8 wasn’t anything to turn your nose up at, especially in a pre-2022 real estate market

I’ve heard old time stories, maybe they were Urban legends, of controllers going to somewhere like a 10/11 tower. Then going to a 12. Then back to their 10/11 taking their 12 pay with them (advancing their pay scale a decade or more) . They now have the advantage being near the top but not topped out, and even getting 6% upon cert once back at the 10/11.

I don’t know that there would be a way to track this, these stories all predate the ncept system

 

[Move78]

I get you are trying to push a narrative but numerous people from different facilities have posted the same exact point. People aren't putting in pointless paperwork at facilities that are years away from being able to release. 7-8% is no where near the actual percentage of people that want to transfer. If my facility was close to releasing our facility would be over 90% of controllers with paperwork to transfer. It's currently around 10% because people think it's a waste of time to put in paperwork.

I think everyone on the controller side is confident it’s much higher than 8%. But do you expect the Agency to just take your word for it?
The controllers are leaving 100 transfers on the table at the end of these panels because the requests don’t exist.

The new national release policy now has two boxes to check instead of one to release anyone, and if you don’t have anybody in training you’re subject to the 85% staffing to target number as per the old release policy. So what the fuck really changed for the better Mr. NATCA is so great?

None of this post is correct. Read the docs. The old NRP required at or above 85 AOB (current to Target) and at or above 85 projected to Target. 2 boxes. It also used the facility’s AOB to often control total losses which kept a large chunk of facilities at 1 loss when they went green.
The new NRP requires at or above 80 AOB and at or above 85 ETT in 12 months. 2 boxes. But it only uses the AOB as a qualifier so once you get to 80 it doesn’t restrict your losses in any way.

 

[32andBelow]

You should just be able to apply for open positions period. No other requirements.

 

[SquawkHijack]

None of this post is correct. Read the docs. The old NRP required at or above 85 AOB (current to Target) and at or above 85 projected to Target. 2 boxes. It also used the facility’s AOB to often control total losses which kept a large chunk of facilities at 1 loss when they went green.
The new NRP requires at or above 80 AOB and at or above 85 ETT in 12 months. 2 boxes. But it only uses the AOB as a qualifier so once you get to 80 it doesn’t restrict your losses in any way.

The new NRP also says if you don’t have anyone in training you’re subject to the same old 85% to target staffing restriction to release. I love how you conveniently left that part out lmao. Not that you’d have any way to get there in that scenario anyway…

 

[Move78]

The new NRP also says if you don’t have anyone in training you’re subject to the same old 85% to target staffing restriction to release. I love how you conveniently left that part out lmao. Not that you’d have any way to get there in that scenario anyway…

I don’t know what you’re talking about

 

[Phillytroll69]

You should just be able to apply for open positions period. No other requirements.

I actually submitted to faa idea hub circa 2016? (before I realized they dont care) that you should just have one form done each year. IE one 3330-43 and one 3330-43-1 it makes no sense at all to waste time copying and pasting announcement numbers and blah blah. Most people will not see a point change unless they are finishing a degree or something.

To the younger peeps, the idea hub was this website where they wanted to hear from you, the controllers-it got touted like somebody actually read it.

 

[Move78]

A systems that prioritized the age of the request (first filed, first served) would fix this. There would be an instantaneous wave of ERRs and all these people in denial of what the general experience has been for post-sequester hires would have their jaws on the floor.

And it would break other things. If age of ERR had any real substance behind it then the, already too high, number of casual ERRs would skyrocket and controllers screwing other controllers via declination would increase.

I was gonna say, Zs have gotten the raw end of the deal with NCEPT for a long time.


Thanks for posting!

The DEN release to MCI is shitty, that person was at MCI, ERRd to DEN and is now going back to MCI… I feel terrible for anyone stuck at a low level shithole who can’t even ERR at all. This hopscotching from one good facility to another should NOT be happening.

We will complain that we can’t get our ERR to Denver Tower and we will also complain about a new vacancy at Denver Tower

 

[CreepyPineapple]

Move78 you’re an NCEPT rep right? Are there any plans or push to streamline the ERR process? Seems like something our union should be pushing for.

 

[Bandit117]

Move78 you’re an NCEPT rep right? Are there any plans or push to streamline the ERR process? Seems like something our union should be pushing for.

It’s not like there’s this thing called the internet that might obviate the need to use a fucking FAX MACHINE. Or maybe they can get rid of the paperwork that has you duplicating all the information the agency already has on your SF-50s

 

[ajmezz]

And it would break other things. If age of ERR had any real substance behind it then the, already too high, number of casual ERRs would skyrocket and controllers screwing other controllers via declination would increase.

Simple fix to that is punishing people for declinations (not eligible x time that increases with each declination. It’s happened often enough to people, the fact there isn’t something already in place is asinine.

 

[Move78]

Simple fix to that is punishing people for declinations (not eligible x time that increases with each declination. It’s happened often enough to people, the fact there isn’t something already in place is asinine.

I agree but it’s a very very dicey proposition for a union to advocate for punitive measures against its own BU.
Now the reason I agree with you because it would also be protecting its BU from itself. Kicking ourselves in the teeth is a mastered art at this point.
They’ll never truly prevent declinations from harming others but id like to see some kind of shit on the wall.

Move78 you’re an NCEPT rep right? Are there any plans or push to streamline the ERR process? Seems like something our union should be pushing for.

That’s been on request for minimum 6 years. They got some competent management moved into the right chairs, for 7 minutes, last year and finally seemed to get real traction towards integrating it into the USA jobs program Aviator but trumps retardparade killed it in January and now it’s dead dead. So the agency will have to build an entire tool from scratch and it’s prolly back down to number 32 on the list of priorities.

 

[Mike Kilo]

We will complain that we can’t get our ERR to Denver Tower and we will also complain about a new vacancy at Denver Tower

This made me chuckle as well. It’s better for people who get their high three and want to slow down to move and open spots for new ambitious controllers.

 

[slowtation]

I agree but it’s a very very dicey proposition for a union to advocate for punitive measures against its own BU.
Now the reason I agree with you because it would also be protecting its BU from itself. Kicking ourselves in the teeth is a mastered art at this point.
They’ll never truly prevent declinations from harming others but id like to see some kind of shit on the wall.

There’s a guy who turned down DEN, PHX, and is now picked up for IAH. We’re placing bets to see if he goes or not.

 

[Move78]

There’s a guy who turned down DEN, PHX, and is now picked up for IAH. We’re placing bets to see if he goes or not.

There’s certainly too much toxic bullshit out there with controllers complaining about what others do with their careers but my god what a fucking choke slam for all those out there that desperately want just one of those opportunities.

 

[Termine]

It’s not like there’s this thing called the internet that might obviate the need to use a fucking FAX MACHINE.

Every ERR I've ever sent, the receiving region accepted them by email. There might be some regions that still want them faxed, but many don't.

Agree that the whole process is convoluted and redundant and needs be streamlined.

 

[Acquired Taste]

There’s a guy who turned down DEN, PHX, and is now picked up for IAH. We’re placing bets to see if he goes or not.

Bro is doing his facility a favor. The releases are going unused anyway, might as well create a fake projected outbound for a month, allow an academy grad to be selected to keep the 120% projected staffing scam going, rescind the commitment, then rinse and repeat. Keep those excess releases piled up and the spot leave abundant while they wait for a spot to open up down the street. Big brain shit right there.

If he wanted to be giga brained, he could accept the transfer and align his release date in conjuction with a month long planned vacation. Take 8 days COS to relocate to new location, email the ATM on day 1 of the new start date and let them know you have thought better of it and request to withdraw with the fast track option back to your old fac. Tell them to show you on annual for 2 weeks to process the paperwork and after that show you on 8 days COS to move back to your old home. Month long vacation for the price of 10 days of annual, while getting larger half on the go checks in the meantime. What could go wrong?

 

[Gauff]

Every ERR I've ever sent, the receiving region accepted them by email. There might be some regions that still want them faxed, but many don't.

Agree that the whole process is convoluted and redundant and needs be streamlined.

I think I submitted to every region via email and got an acceptance response via email. I could have missed one or two though

 

[32andBelow]

They should pick backups that automatically get selected if people don’t accept

 

[Jayyy Jayyy]

And it would break other things. If age of ERR had any real substance behind it then the, already too high, number of casual ERRs would skyrocket and controllers screwing other controllers via declination would increase.

The obvious solution for this is to penalize declinations, but they refuse to do that.

 

[Move78]

The obvious solution for this is to penalize declinations, but they refuse to do that.

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