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RavenYZF-R6

Forum Sage
Messages
890
Ummm yup. Because I’ve done it on several bids that I wasn’t selected for. Look it up.
My Google fu sucks right now because I can’t find it, but you said “several bids”. Bids are different than an ERR and NCEPT. So do you mean Bids or ERrs?
 

Gusher

Member
Messages
61
My Google fu sucks right now because I can’t find it, but you said “several bids”. Bids are different than an ERR and NCEPT. So do you mean Bids or ERrs?
Mine were bids. But if you look at the chapter it is for ‘internal permanent placement’ or something to that fact. Basically internal hiring for a position. Shouldn’t matter if it’s a bid or not. If there is a position open and multiple people ‘apply’, by whatever means they do, there has to be a selection criteria that someone should have to answer too.
 

ManBearPig

Active Member
Messages
44
Fuck NCEPT. I can't leave because we don't have enough people. We can't get more people because we have too many people. Then we get to compete with the 150% staffed level 5 vfr tower people to go to a 12 tracon. Skipping people on the managers selection list because another facility will be "less effected". Fuck this shiy.
 

PushingTin

Legendary Member
Messages
908
NACTA crushes resistance too at least in anything regarding NCEPT, so maybe it won’t change anything after all is will just confirm what we already knew was there like those pentagon/Navy UFO tapes.
Not only is she an inspiration during the pandemic, but if Mia Khalifa can #StormArea51 then I am inspired to think we can storm NATCA and enact change! the truth is out there 👽

MIA.png
 

RavenYZF-R6

Forum Sage
Messages
890
Mine were bids. But if you look at the chapter it is for ‘internal permanent placement’ or something to that fact. Basically internal hiring for a position. Shouldn’t matter if it’s a bid or not. If there is a position open and multiple people ‘apply’, by whatever means they do, there has to be a selection criteria that someone should have to answer too.
I still think ERRs aren’t in that category as it is a lateral move, non competitive bid. Like swaps, “for the sole benefit of the employee”.

But someone who wasn’t selected last ncept but was eligible should shoot off an email referencing that resource and see what they say! Maybe if enough people are bogging them down with requests they will just publish them.
 

Dolan

Trusted Contributor
Messages
279
But if you look at the chapter it is for ‘internal permanent placement’ or something to that fact.
I'm sure there's something in the document you're referencing that supports what you're saying.

Shouldn’t matter if it’s a bid or not. If there is a position open and multiple people ‘apply’, by whatever means they do, there has to be a selection criteria that someone should have to answer too.
But there isn't. Like the previous poster said, if you're able to pull a single ranking list from any previous panel you'll prove everyone contradicting you in this thread wrong and completely change how everyone thinks the current process works (Hint: HR isn't going to give you jack)
 

Foogy

Forum Sage
Messages
987
You got a source for that?...
#WorksCited
Hi AB19. I want you to know that I'm only here because this is open for anyone on the internet to see and I've gotten multiple notifications from people, some in our facility some not, about your posts and I'd be remiss if I let you openly talk trash about me and your fellow coworkers unchecked. May I be the first to remind you that about 3 months ago we fought and won the ability to restructure our pay scale so that trainees earn their raises much sooner than they have in the past. It's a complete lie that "everyone will tell you to shut the fuck up if you bitch about not making any money on AG pay." Every single person who has come through MAF in the past 10 years has had to go through the same problem and everyone sympathizes. We've been fighting hard to get greater and better training opportunities for all of our trainees. All of our CPCs are eligible to train and they do so 6 days per week, even some of our supervisors will throw themselves into the rotation and train to meet our goals. It's supremely disrespectful to imply that we don't care, especially after how hard we've fought for you in your personal training career.

Let this serve as a reminder that ATC is a small community and there's no escaping your reputation, especially when you post openly and proudly on the internet about how you hate your facility and your coworkers. Best of luck at RTF!

Sincerely,
Your NATCA Rep
 

corn4ahead

Trusted Contributor
Messages
466
Oh man, you can’t BS me I read the AZO realignment MOU and those AZO CPCs got a 1% bonus when the 5 TRACONs arrived AND a 1% bonus when they certified on them.
Take it from someone who has been a part of 2 of the 804 consolations so far.

If you were in a training status prior to the beginning of the initial cross training, you are ineligible for ANY of the 1% raises. For example, people starting cross training in September of 2018. Yet the cutover was not until September 2019. ( For CLE).

So people who weren't quite CPC yet by September of 2019. Are not eligible for EITHER of the raises. Yet people who retired, left the facility, etc, got at least the first 1% raise and will never work the new traffic.

And btw, it's a 1% lump sum. Whoop di do. So for most people, like 2k total at the most. Again, NOT a 1% raise on the base.
 

BCHOOSIER

Active Member
Messages
53
Which could easily be 10 years. I'm sure the intent is to contract those places out but that's a significant political undertaking in an already slow-ass government. They should have done right by their members and given every single CPC at those towers one golden ticket to go anywhere with a staffing vacancy and fill those now VFR towers up with academy grads.

Instead I'm sure NATCA tried to force feed everyone koolaid and convince them that the consolidation was in every single person's best interest and that no losers would be created by the process. Such a joke of a union.
The MI 804 was a tough situation and I hope facilities around the country review what happened before jumping on the 804 bandwagon.
The majority of the CPCs got what they wanted which was to leave, some to AZO and some NCEPT'd out. But for those that wanted to stay or didn't get out in the first couple waves of NCEPT, got and will continue to get screwed. It was a great move for the Agency. Sell the CPCs at those facilities about the opportunity of a "huge" raise or the ability to transfer somewhere else. At the same time back fill the facilities with low paid academy grads. The old timers will retire and they'll have no one in the facility with any experience...management's dream. In a few years when the level 4 pay raises kicks in, (or doesn't at all for those that got stuck and are capped out) and all those academy grads back in the day are now CPCs and stuck forever, those at the facility will do anything to get out. Perfect time and landscape for the Agency to bring up contracting out or even worst permanent closures. Meanwhile, all those that went to AZO for the "huge" raise are still waiting. If the facility doesn't get to a lvl 8, the majority of controllers will only have received a 6% raise. Former GRR controllers will get no raise at all. It wouldn't surprise me one bit if in a few years or even sooner with the way things are going, that AZO will try to lower numbers and those that are unhappy with the bill of goods sold will agree to this. The Agency will win again and there will be even less "higher paying" jobs in MI.
At the end of the day, the Agency played the long game. They got enough on board and sold it as a positive and threw a few bones to those it the present to get what they wanted in the future. If your at a small facility and want to be 804'd to get out, I hope you get out! Because as hard as it may be to imagine, if you get stuck, your future will be even worst off then now.
 

PushingTin

Legendary Member
Messages
908
MJ Feel free to remove my moderator status, if needed, given my complete derailment of this thread.
lol no! this thread is the best thing that's happened here in weeks. IE, since the "Woeful Unpreparedness of Management" shitshow!

#WorksCited
LOL, your English teacher would be proud. A truly amazing moment in .65 history. Even better was that when the rep who doxxed his own guy for a quick burn, then did full reversal when people stopped slapping him on the back and LOLing along at him trying to embarass his lowly trainee for not drinking the same flava of Kool-Aid. #BestJobinTheWorld #.65HallOfFame

.....but is she hot?
i'd be willing to bet a very strong YES, altho Nepotism in its purest form does not consider such things! #TheBloodline


Take it from someone who has been a part of 2 of the 804 consolations so far.

If you were in a training status prior to the beginning of the initial cross training, you are ineligible for ANY of the 1% raises. For example, people starting cross training in September of 2018. Yet the cutover was not until September 2019. ( For CLE).

So people who weren't quite CPC yet by September of 2019. Are not eligible for EITHER of the raises. Yet people who retired, left the facility, etc, got at least the first 1% raise and will never work the new traffic.

And btw, it's a 1% lump sum. Whoop di do. So for most people, like 2k total at the most. Again, NOT a 1% raise on the base.
So what your are saying is: The 804 MOU's were written very poorly, and in a manner that priveleged certain CPCs only for the 1% lump bonuses. All of these disaster 804's have copied the Cape/A90 MOU almost literally verbatim, as Cape was the OG and its people became the standard nationally. Also isn't it true that your rep who is a nice guy.... is also a made man in the context of the big union heavy hitters, which allows one certain facility to reap massive benefit & realize delusions of grandeur (despite whoop-di-do amount of the benefit and subsequent "we havent leveled up as much as we thought omgz!") over the rest, which have now been nuked? Be honest! Some RVPs have actually said they will never sanction another 804 in their region again to the extent they have pull over it, due to the carnage they have wrought on the non country clubs.

My poor poor beautiful Michigan & Michiganders. Thrown to the wolves. Ohhhh Muskegon and Traverse City and the THumb how I shall miss thee, but how can I go back to you and recreate, knowing the taint that has been brought to your land! Guess all reps cant be as good as ARB's. No more Michigan and again and again. Existential crisis. In solidarity, I will find another. 💔


MI.jpg
 

Bandit117

Trusted Contributor
Messages
112
The MI 804 was a tough situation and I hope facilities around the country review what happened before jumping on the 804 bandwagon.
The majority of the CPCs got what they wanted which was to leave, some to AZO and some NCEPT'd out. But for those that wanted to stay or didn't get out in the first couple waves of NCEPT, got and will continue to get screwed. It was a great move for the Agency. Sell the CPCs at those facilities about the opportunity of a "huge" raise or the ability to transfer somewhere else. At the same time back fill the facilities with low paid academy grads. The old timers will retire and they'll have no one in the facility with any experience...management's dream. In a few years when the level 4 pay raises kicks in, (or doesn't at all for those that got stuck and are capped out) and all those academy grads back in the day are now CPCs and stuck forever, those at the facility will do anything to get out. Perfect time and landscape for the Agency to bring up contracting out or even worst permanent closures. Meanwhile, all those that went to AZO for the "huge" raise are still waiting. If the facility doesn't get to a lvl 8, the majority of controllers will only have received a 6% raise. Former GRR controllers will get no raise at all. It wouldn't surprise me one bit if in a few years or even sooner with the way things are going, that AZO will try to lower numbers and those that are unhappy with the bill of goods sold will agree to this. The Agency will win again and there will be even less "higher paying" jobs in MI.
At the end of the day, the Agency played the long game. They got enough on board and sold it as a positive and threw a few bones to those it the present to get what they wanted in the future. If your at a small facility and want to be 804'd to get out, I hope you get out! Because as hard as it may be to imagine, if you get stuck, your future will be even worst off then now.
I’ve heard through the grapevine that AZO was nowhere near level 8 numbers that were promised once everything got consolidated and running, and with all this they won’t be even getting the chance to try anytime soon. The level 8 was a lie, AZO is a now a middle 7.

GRR has stuff going for it, it’s a great place to live even at 5 pay, but MKG, MBS, FNT etc all at level 4 pay? Hell no
 

PushingTin

Legendary Member
Messages
908
I’ve heard through the grapevine that AZO was nowhere near level 8 numbers that were promised once everything got consolidated and running, and with all this they won’t be even getting the chance to try anytime soon. The level 8 was a lie, AZO is a now a middle 7.

GRR has stuff going for it, it’s a great place to live even at 5 pay, but MKG, MBS, FNT etc all at level 4 pay? Hell no
I heard a rumor that the architect of it all ERRed to Detroit... no word on if the 1% bonuses were collected first!
 

FightingIrish2012

Forum Sage
Messages
561
I heard a rumor that the architect of it all ERRed to Detroit... no word on if the 1% bonuses were collected first!
If he did so what? I'm sure he put 100+ extra hours into the project and took a lot of shit from people at all six facilities. It is kind of weird he would not stay at the home base but he probably stood out on the ranking lists at Detroit Tower or APCH or wherever he went for being a recognized figure with a work ethic.
 

PushingTin

Legendary Member
Messages
908
If he did so what? I'm sure he put 100+ extra hours into the project and took a lot of shit from people at all six facilities. It is kind of weird he would not stay at the home base but he probably stood out on the ranking lists at Detroit Tower or APCH or wherever he went for being a recognized figure with a work ethic.
LOL. Yes yes I'm sure it was ALL above board! #BestJobInTheWorld
 
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