Canceling IFR at the completion of an approach

[Sharkbait35]

This question is in reference to aircraft conducting practice approaches and then departing for vfr work (overhead, vfr departure, etc.).

One facility I was at would tell aircraft, "at the completion of your approach, maintain vfr..." while the facility I'm currently at tells aircraft "report your IFR cancelation with the tower".

We can run into issues where the aircraft forgets to report IFR cancelation and then we're wasting time getting him to report it. We have aircraft that commonly like to shoot the ILS to a touch and go and then depart to the initial for the overhead. Is the approach controller allowed to give the instruction that IFR is canceled at the completion of the approach? If so, where can I find the rule regarding this?

 

[32andBelow]

This question is in reference to aircraft conducting practice approaches and then departing for vfr work (overhead, vfr departure, etc.).

One facility I was at would tell aircraft, "at the completion of your approach, maintain vfr..." while the facility I'm currently at tells aircraft "report your IFR cancelation with the tower".

We can run into issues where the aircraft forgets to report IFR cancelation and then we're wasting time getting him to report it. We have aircraft that commonly like to shoot the ILS to a touch and go and then depart to the initial for the overhead. Is the approach controller allowed to give the instruction that IFR is canceled at the completion of the approach? If so, where can I find the rule regarding this?

No. You have to let them fly the published missed if they need to. Imagine if they got a legit configuration warning and had to go missed. The airplane must cancel IFR before they start to do VFR practice stuff. It’s best to just have a plane word conversation with the pilot to make sure everyone is on the same page.

A call to the tower to make sure they get the cancellation is also helpful

 

[Sharkbait35]

I was thinking of this too. Wasn't sure you could dictate the IFR being canceled but it was common procedure at my other facility

 

[MV1987]

No. You have to let them fly the published missed if they need to. Imagine if they got a legit configuration warning and had to go missed. The airplane must cancel IFR before they start to do VFR practice stuff. It’s best to just have a plane word conversation with the pilot to make sure everyone is on the same page.

A call to the tower to make sure they get the cancellation is also helpful

Don't think this is correct. VFR practice approaches are not afforded the PM unless requested. IFR approaches are afforded it unless alternate instructions are given. In the examples in the .65 maintain vfr is one of them. Of course, I would only do this if the pilot specifies he would like to go vfr after the approach.

 

[32andBelow]

Don't think this is correct. VFR practice approaches are not afforded the PM unless requested. IFR approaches are afforded it unless alternate instructions are given. In the examples in the .65 maintain vfr is one of them. Of course, I would only do this if the pilot specifies he would like to go vfr after the approach.

seems risky since they can do missed on any potion of the approach and may not even be in VFR conditions. I would never want to do it that way. But maybe they do in places without terrain.

 

[DankVectorz]

In the AF we used “after completion of your option maintain VFR”

 

[Atcbrownie]

I think there is some confusion here. Is the aircraft IFR or VFR? By saying "practice approach" people assume VFR. However, the way you word the question it seems as though the aircraft is IFR conducting an approach then wants to stay in the VFR traffic pattern.

IFR are IFR until THEY cancel or land. VFR are VFR even when conducting an instrument approach therefore no need to cancel.

 

[NotKC]

I think there is some confusion here. Is the aircraft IFR or VFR? By saying "practice approach" people assume VFR. However, the way you word the question it seems as though the aircraft is IFR conducting an approach then wants to stay in the VFR traffic pattern.

IFR are IFR until THEY cancel or land. VFR are VFR even when conducting an instrument approach therefore no need to cancel.

You could argue they landed as soon as they cross the threshold for low approach or touch the pavement for touch and go. They reached their clearance limit, now they are a departure.

 

[Sharkbait35]

Aircraft is IFR. I think MV1987 is referencing 4-8-12

 

[32andBelow]

You could argue they landed as soon as they cross the threshold for low approach or touch the pavement for touch and go. They reached their clearance limit, now they are a departure.

I agree with this. But I don’t agree with any sort of language which Forces them to cancel when you issue the approach.

This is where the pilot needs to be told hey you need to cancel before you start going VFR work. If you don’t cancel I expect you’ll be in the published missed.

 

[NotKC]

I agree with this. But I don’t agree with any sort of language which Forces them to cancel when you issue the approach.

This is where the pilot needs to be told hey you need to cancel before you start going VFR work. If you don’t cancel I expect you’ll be in the published missed.

I agree with you, you can't force that, but if a pilot requests it...

I agree with you, you can't force that, but if a pilot requests it...

Side note: would never do this at a non towered airport.

 

[MV1987]

seems risky since they can do missed on any potion of the approach and may not even be in VFR conditions. I would never want to do it that way. But maybe they do in places without terrain.

Tower should have unplanned missed approach procedures in place, i.e. runway heading to whatever altitude or tell the aircraft to execute the published missed approach if it is unplanned, with a follow up statement of say intentions. Also, if they are conducting an IFR practice approach in IFR conditions why would request to be vfr after the approach?

 

[DankVectorz]

But I don’t agree with any sort of language which Forces them to cancel when you issue the approach.

You’re not forcing anything, they asked for it. And they don’t cancel when you issue the approach, they cancel at completion of the approach and maintain VFR with the tower on the go.

 

[Sharkbait35]

They aren't. Field is vmc but they want an IFR practice approach.

 

[flypilot]

At my facility when we have someone want to do an IFR approach under IFR and then stay in the pattern afterward, we say "climb out instructions are maintain VFR with the tower" and they accept it. I dont think we're "forcing the cancellation" on them because they have the ability to either accept or unable the climb out instructions.

 

[32andBelow]

At my facility when we have someone want to do an IFR approach under IFR and then stay in the pattern afterward, we say "climb out instructions are maintain VFR with the tower" and they accept it. I dont think we're "forcing the cancellation" on them because they have the ability to either accept or unable the climb out instructions.

And what if they don’t get to that point of being able to do that?

 

[flypilot]

And what if they don’t get to that point of being able to do that?

Get to the point of being able to do what? Accept the climb out instructions? If that's what you mean we usually give the climb out almost immediately after they check in. They check in, we ask for approach request, we give climb out. So they have quite a bit of time before being switched to the tower to change their minds.

If you mean if they can't remain VFR with the tower then tower will give runway heading and climb to 2000 and send back to approach

 

[MV1987]

And what if they don’t get to that point of being able to do that?

Not sure what you're getting at here, I think I already answered this question earlier. In this situation the pilot is literally the one asking to maintain vfr after the approach. If they have to go around before the approach then they will say that and either give their intentions or they will be given unplanned missed approach instructions by the tower, it'll be coordinated with approach and that's that, unless the pilot has another request or approach wants them on a different climb out.

 

[DankVectorz]

IFR approach to tower pattern is basic shit why are you arguing lol

 

[32andBelow]

Not sure what you're getting at here, I think I already answered this question earlier. In this situation the pilot is literally the one asking to maintain vfr after the approach. If they have to go around before the approach then they will say that and either give their intentions or they will be given unplanned missed approach instructions by the tower, it'll be coordinated with approach and that's that, unless the pilot has another request or approach wants them on a different climb out.

I think they are telling you their intentions but I think it’s best practice to just have them cancel when they are ready not try give them weird instructions. Not all airports can just give runway heading. Sometimes there is terrain