When is IFR Cancelled?

[TushingPin]

Had someone tell me today that IFR is canceled when the Aircraft hits the missed approach point. Thats new to me.... I was always under the impression its when they're on the ground. So lets say a tower has a IFR inbound, he lands. His IFR is canceled right? Lets say the tower sends him around for a dwarf on the runway, IFR would NOT be canceled until he eventually lands, correct? Can someone point to me where it says that IFR is officially canceled? Thanks all.

 

[32andBelow]

Can you post up the approach. It’s still not clicking that proceed visually is not “proceed VFR”. You don’t say “cleared VFR approach”. Also how can an instrument approach force them to cancel IFR?

I can’t I’m not at work. It’s a special

 

[MJ]

Can you post up the approach. It’s still not clicking that proceed visually is not “proceed VFR”. You don’t say “cleared VFR approach”. Also how can an instrument approach force them to cancel IFR?

I don't have a real world example, but conceptually, it would just be cleared to a point versus the airport. Same concept as clearing someone on a visual approach to the overhead, where IFR is automatically cancelled by agreement at a specified point. Also similar to making an approach at one airport to land at another that doesn't have any approaches. There wouldn't be automatic cancellation in that case, but it's the same idea essentially. I could see it being part of a published approach that IFR service is no longer provided after some point.

 

[PrisonMike]

I don't have a real world example, but conceptually, it would just be cleared to a point versus the airport. Same concept as clearing someone on a visual approach to the overhead, where IFR is automatically cancelled by agreement at a specified point. Also similar to making an approach at one airport to land at another that doesn't have any approaches. There wouldn't be automatic cancellation in that case, but it's the same idea essentially. I could see it being part of a published approach that IFR service is no longer provided after some point.

Why would you clear an aircraft for a visual approach that is going to the overhead? Thank makes zero sense.

 

[MJ]

Why would you clear an aircraft for a visual approach that is going to the overhead? Thank makes zero sense.

Because they’re IFR and want to fly visually…

 

[PrisonMike]

Because they’re IFR and want to fly visually…

But they’re not IFR after they hit the initial. Cleared direct X for the initial, then the aircraft is VFR once they commence from the initial.

 

[TushingPin]

But they’re not IFR after they hit the initial. Cleared direct X for the initial, then the aircraft is VFR once they commence from the initial.

Yeah. Or just give them the Visual and they become VFR once they proceed to an initial..... the visual gives them the ability to line up to Initial. I have had this argument a few times and actually really hate it. A visual approach allows them to proceed visually, if they wanna go to initial then their IFR is canceled at that point. If for whatever reason they decide to go straight in on a visual approach then the IFR is canceled on the ground.

 

[AB19]

Yeah. Or just give them the Visual and they become VFR once they proceed to an initial..... the visual gives them the ability to line up to Initial. I have had this argument a few times and actually really hate it. A visual approach allows them to proceed visually, if they wanna go to initial then their IFR is canceled at that point. If for whatever reason they decide to go straight in on a visual approach then the IFR is canceled on the ground.

Just tell them to enter blank mile initial at x, you don’t need to clear them for the visual

 

[MJ]

Just tell them to enter blank mile initial at x, you don’t need to clear them for the visual

There needs to be a clearance that gets them to initial.

 

[PrisonMike]

There needs to be a clearance that gets them to initial.

Cleared direct…

 

[Termine]

"Proceed direct four-mile initial, cleared overhead Runway XX."

They proceed IFR to a four-mile initial, they automatically become VFR, they perform an overhead.

 

[MJ]

Cleared direct…

"Proceed direct four-mile initial, cleared overhead Runway XX."

They proceed IFR to a four-mile initial, they automatically become VFR, they perform an overhead.

That's not even a valid clearance. 4-4-1. ROUTE USE Not to mention, there's an infinite number of cases where "direct" isn't applicable.

 

[TushingPin]

Just tell them to enter blank mile initial at x, you don’t need to clear them for the visual

Or just say the words "cleared visual approach runway xx"

 

[PrisonMike]

Or just say the words "cleared visual approach runway xx"

Because they’re not cleared for the visual approach.

 

[TushingPin]

Because they’re not cleared for the visual approach.

If you clear them. They are. Then when they hit inital, they are no longer IFR and it's irrelevant. Its a easier way to get them to 5 mile initial without saying cleared direct 5 mile initial. It also gives them the ability to descend and do whatever else, without having to do it manually.

 

[tink]

View attachment 7938


That's not even a valid clearance. 4-4-1. ROUTE USE Not to mention, there's an infinite number of cases where "direct" isn't applicable.

We got a ruling on this years ago from the region.
We can send them direct a 5mile initial. It is a point in space.

No need to clear for a visual.

“Proceed to a 5 mile initial, contact tower.” is all we need to say.

If a cloud pops up and they can no longer maintain VFR after the initial point, well that’s what chapter 10 is for I guess.

 

[MJ]

We can send them direct a 5mile initial. It is a point in space.

No need to clear for a visual.

Like I mentioned in the other post, there's plenty of instances where "direct" isn't viable, so in any case those would be two different use cases. If the region is good with it then cool. I'd still argue it's not a valid clearance. Initial is vaguely defined and dependent on airspace/airport configs, so in many instances issuing direct initial would be an assumption/guess as to where the a/c ends up going.