CaptainObvious
Legendary Member
- Messages
- 2,246
Approach won’t take the closest one? I’ll start flashing all 15 of them at them
Handoffs and How Far Is Too Far
- Thread starter vectorwagon
- Start date
GulfBravoPapa
⭐SuperStar
- Messages
- 2,119
I only watch about ten miles outside of my airspace as a feeder controller.... flash all you want, I can't see it
ERAM gives them access to all the flight plan information via limited data block if it’s routed anywhere in that center’s airspace, it doesn’t even have to be the sector. Limiteds act the same as full DB in this regard. So there’s no advantage to an early flash from underneath.
And like someone else pointed out it’ll all be in the EDST 20 minutes early as well.
I wasn't really saying there was an advantage or disadvantage to flashing early under. If someday I transfer to a tracon and flash early, it'll probably be because otherwise I'd miss it until my next scan and the guy would level, and then hustling to get the flash in when the guy was already bound to level.
good thing I work at a vfr lvel 4 tower and don't have these problems.!
jdatc, Like you I don't care when I get the flash, I'll take 'em when I want. My "Too Early" moment is the next controller flashing it to thier next controller while the aircraft are still in my airspace. My exception is when the aircraft is within ~5min of the next sector's boundary. I work a sector where I have 2.5min from crossing into my sector, to the boundary of the next. The next sector typically has no issues taking it within those 2/2.5min.
Previous Center was taught ~5min from boundary (nice wide sectors). Current Center seems to be ASAP (not as roomy, but still 4-8min in most places). ASAP has included before the receiving controller is even talking to the aircraft (more than 8min to their next boundary, and without a flash-through agreement). I find that interesting because there are people in my area that hate when a controller flashes them multiples at once.
In Z-Land , if someone is flashed 15min out, don't get pissed when you have to call for a hand-off if you flashed to a sector that was combined (at flash) then split out 10min ago, well before the limited was within my range. Also don't get pissed if I don't call saying the sector has been split...I'm not required to (unless stated by LOA/SOP).
On a side note: if my current facility did a better job of teaching us the surrounding sectors and displaying some of their boundaries, I'd do a lot more point-outs. One less radio change is one less opportunity for a pilot to go nordo. But I have no hope of this as at least two adjoing tracons' sector boundaries are not mapped correctly on my area's maps to begin with.
To furth expand: If DM'd less than 20min from boundary, it'll show in EDST as soon as it's DM'd
Last edited:
Stinger
Forum Sage
- Messages
- 1,530
If they'll be flying out of the top of my airspace: Initiate the handoff as soon as I talk to them.
If they'll be flying out the side of my airspace: Initiate the handoff within 10-15 miles of the airspace boundary or the TCP or what's in your LOA. Pilot asks to change their final altitude, then you can change it in the FDIO without needing to call verbally.
I won't take a handoff on an aircraft until that aircraft is at a point where I have control for something. Whether turns or descent/climb. It's pointless, but I also partly blame the other controller for switching aircraft early when the new person needs to call for any control instruction.
If they'll be flying out the side of my airspace: Initiate the handoff within 10-15 miles of the airspace boundary or the TCP or what's in your LOA. Pilot asks to change their final altitude, then you can change it in the FDIO without needing to call verbally.
I won't take a handoff on an aircraft until that aircraft is at a point where I have control for something. Whether turns or descent/climb. It's pointless, but I also partly blame the other controller for switching aircraft early when the new person needs to call for any control instruction.
jdatc
Legendary Member
- Messages
- 758
I ranged out on feeder today and took a few at 70
Miles just for fun. It’s slow and combined, why not? Makes me feel like a center controller again!
I don't think it's pointless when you're down the shitter and the guy has a pretty low chance of having a conflict. It's one less person on your frequency and if the next guy took it earlier, there's a good chance they're less down the shitter.
If you’re going down the shitter this is a whole different thread then ? if I’m going down the shitter, everyone is flashing on
Dialoutmfer
Trusted Contributor
- Messages
- 127
Two centers here also, so you took pleasure in going to a center with a culture of flashing at an appropriate time and pissing off as many controllers as possible ? Nice. If you can’t see the value of not forcing extra data blocks on your fellow controller’s scope I can’t help you. The few controllers who I have seen do this consistently over the years were either weak controllers trying to survive their next session while they searched for their next traffic dodging scam or absolute assholes.
jdatc
Legendary Member
- Messages
- 758
Yeah. All correct. Especially the asshole part. I flashed at the appropriate time for people, but for you, I can tell I’d flash early, often and probably PVD guys and do worthless point outs.
One day I will figure this out. Thank god I am at a tracon now so you are safe. Oh, I also would if I was seeing a controller going down the shitter route people around their airspace and not do flash throughs and stuff like that. I am a team player to the right people.
But yeah, people I hate, I took it to them. Especially self righteous ones.
To balance out the asshole part though, I just donated 40 hours of annual to some one on the donor list. I have another 40 to donate next week. Thanks Covid!
Last edited:
Honestly never knew flashing early was an issue lol. I always wonder sometimes why the hell center hasn’t started a flash to me until 5-10 miles from the border. We make and take handoffs where I work because most traffic is in and out in 5 minutes.
the inquirer
Forum Sage
- Messages
- 443
A bit off topic regarding the leave donor list. The hours listed to their name is the number of hours that has been donated so far or the amount of hours they are in the hole?
CaptainObvious
Legendary Member
- Messages
- 2,246
Neighboring center no shit flashed through a Cessna 100 miles from my boundary (ran the boundary of another sector in the area). I watched that fucker flash for 45 minutes
jdatc
Legendary Member
- Messages
- 758
I thought it was hours they were asking for / requesting. I just looked at the NATCA site and read some stories and chose a couple people to give mine to. I don’t think there is any running total of what they have received. Also after donating, your supervisor gets an immediate email to approve them. So if they are there, you can generally get them to do their part on the spot.
Any idea how the supe thing works if your supe has decided that working since october is overrated, and won't be in until after the new year?
- Messages
- 2,248
- Facility
- N90 New York Tracon
If the flashing is bother you then just take the handoff and it stops flashing. If you’re too busy to click on him then put me in a hold. I’m not going to switch the guy to you 30 miles from the boundary if that’s what you’re afraid of.
32andBelow
Legendary Member
- Messages
- 10,682
I took an early handoff last week and then it immediately started CAing with other people inside approach
Robert_Boucher
Forum Sage
- Messages
- 851
I've seen some in our overlying TRACON start flashing our departures to ZJX as soon as they tag up. ZJX takes them before they are out of 020 so I'm guessing they don't mind the early flash.
Similar threads
