KLAS Tower Issues
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Dontbotherme
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We had one back in 2010/2011 that was done by the FAA and NASA, if I remember the group correctly, and it stated that one alcoholic beverage (12 ounce beer, 4 oz wine, 1.5 oz shot of liquor) actually improved your cognitive ability. However, your cognitive ability diminished significantly with the second, third, fourth, et cetera.
SugarFoot1
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Ma
maybe she was going down the pooper and was like let me pour a quick 1.5 that turned into 7.5 on accident
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Soooooooo, anyone have an ERR in to LAS?
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I had heard she was fired but I guess she resigned. Probably one of those “you have two choices right now.”
Officials: Vegas air controller who went silent has resigned
Officials: Vegas air controller who went silent has resigned
Electricfence
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I see these changes being about one thing....splitting the mids. How can we justify to the outside world that when two people come in and have that many planes, that one person goes on break for 4 hours just because " that's how we always do it"? We shot ourselves in the foot on this one. sorry that Im not sorry to say that. It just so happens this woman was the catalyst and it was her fault she got drunk on position. I agree we could put in every hurdle but there is no way to prevent that particular point of the story, but oh well.
GulfBravoPapa
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The Agency will say that the mid chances are in fact due to the fact that she was so busy. And it is true that if we wouldn't let a controller work this many airplanes during the day, why do we do it at night? But then why implement sweeping changes nationally without discretion? I work the Sat night/Sun morning mid. So now we cannot combine until 1:30AM... in that time frame (midnight to 1:30) there are maybe five aircraft depending upon on the weather was during the evening shift. And what about podunk tower in the boonies that has nobody but is open just in case? It's a knee jerk reaction by the Agency that does not address the problem. If you don't want people to be working excessive numbers of airplanes it's going to come down to a local MOU for staffing. Have more 4-12 shifts, have a supervisor on until midnight, have a supervisor on the midshift, have three controllers on the midshift. Simply having the two mid controllers working longer than normal is only going to increase fatigue and decrease morale. But hey, at least the FAA can say they did something.
Electricfence
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this issue would not have been solved by a staffing MOU. why so soon into their MID shift, was the other person on break, when she was busy? because "that's how we always do it". How can you possibly explain that to an outside observer? However, I absolutely agree with your assessment for the Podunk and less than busy tower and this not fitting all facilities. itll change, itll just take time. this solved the intial problem of going on break right away.
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She talked to 29 planes in a little over an hour. That’s not busy and it wouldn’t have sounded busy if every transmission didn’t have to be made 3 times.
And if they want 2 people in the ops room all night they better extend the time off between a day and mid shift otherwise you’ll just have 2 zombies in the ops room.
Maintainvfr
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Sure it would. You specify the staffing numbers for certain times in an MOU. Are you suggesting both midnight people should stay plugged in until the traffic dies down? What if that's not for 4 hours? If it's a busy facility that needs more than one position open for a while, then there should be more than two people there. Which would be in *the local staffing MOU.* I also think it's funny that people are even talking about how it's too much traffic for one person. Is it really? How do we even know that? If you're going off the number of transmissions, how many of those were repeats because of the poor service they were receiving? Apparently every sober person for the last how many years has worked it just fine. Their management and leadership decided that traffic was appropriate for one sober person. Do you suggest we staff now with the safeguard for someone that does not have all of their faculties?
Why are you saying that these procedures are in place because "that's how we always do things"? The mid shift guidelines have changed how many times in the last decade? The recuperative breaks were put in place to combat fatigue, and as far as I've seen we aren't in the news for the few people sleeping anymore.
Across the system the current mid rules have worked until someone was working the position intoxicated.
170tovocus
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Why is this so ridiculous? If weather or delays cause the start of the mid to be very busy, then I absolutely think that as all available (in this case, 2) controllers should plug in so as to handle the traffic as safely as possible. No different than the day shift - when it's busy you split up, when it calms down you combine. What are you accomplishing by forcing one guy to handle more traffic than anyone ever would on any other shift?
I agree, she didn't sound that busy to me. Not sure where this is coming from - it seems like that level of traffic could be handled by one person without issue.
This part I kind of understand - and while the FAA kneejerk reaction has nothing to do with this incident, I do understand the (unrelated) problem that it may solve. Where I've worked, the standard is generally that one person works the whole area from the start of the mid. There's never really a discussion of "well, the traffic's really heavy so maybe you should stay on with me for a bit". That's just how it's always been done, and most guys aren't going to want to admit "weakness" by asking their mid partner to split with them until traffic dies down. I still think it's asinine to force a mandatory solution to a problem that happens MAYBE once or twice a month at most, but for those rare times it will objectively increase safety.
Maintainvfr
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Agree with this, I was more talking about doing it as a rule with the facilities that are consistently busy on the mid (either the entirety or a large portion.) Also like you said, most times the incoming controller won't let you stay because of pride or they want a longer break or whatever.
I've seen where it's not combined right at the normal time because the outgoing controller wants to help out or finish off a busy/complex sequence etc.
GulfBravoPapa
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Because nobody should be working four hours straight. Mid traffic isn't a surprise. If it is a weather issue, hold over the 4-12 controller. If it is routinely that busy start the mid later and the night shift can work it or schedule an additional mid person.
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If at the start of the mid it’s too busy for one person to handle but y’all are combining down to 1 scope anyway that’s something that needs to be addressed in your facility. There’s no reason for a rule change to be made to address that. At least here at N90 if it’s super busy we have no problem keeping 2 (or more if 4x’s are held over) scopes open and divide the remainder of the time based on when we combine.
corn4ahead
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How about we negotiate in the new contract that everyone works 4 9s every week. We get paid for 40 hours though. This way we get enough time to sleep between shifts.
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