NATCA leadership on those leaving the union

[MikeSierra]

I just think people complaining about unforeseen inflation are unreasonable. They expect the union to think so far in advance to negotiate imaginary inflation to get them huge raises that many don’t get in the private sector based on their level of education, yet they themselves don’t have the money for a 1 month government shutdown which seems to happen every other year. Im not saying they should have to but it’s fucking hilarious watching the “government shouldn’t give hand outs, people need to work harder” types bitch and moan so they government can give them an handout and are the first ones to be sitting in their ass in the break room saying they don’t get paid enough to work harder.

Don’t get me wrong though the FAA needs to do better.

You make a point. You should always have emergency funds if you can afford it. I don't have a lifted truck, but I do have a truck. Bought it in 2020 when gas was dirt cheap. Now I don't even drive it.. even if you drive a car that gets 30mpg in California, you're paying over $80 to fill up. Emergency funds or not, this will eventually get to everyone.

Edit: Forgot to mention, inflation is closer to 25%. What the Biden admin is saying is complete bullshit. They do not consider the increase of daily goods like gas or milk. Lumber has gone back up. Probably because now no one wants to deliver it when gas is as high as Hunter.

 

[EchoTangoCharlie]

https://www.flra.gov/resources-trai...ations/statute/statute-subchapter-i-general-1

Sounds like a pretty blatant violation

All 16 of those people could/maybe should go after him for this.

 

[Electricfence]

You make a point. You should always have emergency funds if you can afford it. I don't have a lifted truck, but I do have a truck. Bought it in 2020 when gas was dirt cheap. Now I don't even drive it.. even if you drive a car that gets 30mpg in California, you're paying over $80 to fill up. Emergency funds or not, this will eventually get to everyone.

Edit: Forgot to mention, inflation is closer to 25%. What the Biden admin is saying is complete bullshit. They do not consider the increase of daily goods like gas or milk. Lumber has gone back up. Probably because now no one wants to deliver it when gas is as high as Hunter.

Increased lumber prices began under trump. So can’t pin that one in biden. Everything else sure. They are full of shit. He is the worst president ever. And trump lost to him. What does that say? Trump lost the popular vote to clinton also. So why is that fat Cheeto so shocked he lost? And spare me the bullshit it was stolen or the voters are idiots .

Also if you care about hunter, which you should and how there is some serious question marks there, shouldn’t then kushner give you serious red flags? Just because he apparently doesn’t do drugs he’s okay? His father is a notorious crook, actual convicted criminal, and now Jared gets 2 billion from Saudi Arabia? If we are going to call a spade a spade let’s look at all of them. How about hiring your entire family or any family member for that matter? If you are the president or a senator or in congress conflicts of interest shouldn’t even be remotely a possibility. I can’t own airline stock because American might be 3rd in line as opposed to 4th.

 

[Raise when?]

A large percentage of us are upper class.

biggest joke ive read in this thread by far lmfao

 

[rhombus]

All 16 of those people could/maybe should go after him for this.

What exactly would they go after him for?

Was it stupid to say the quiet part out loud on a public website? Yup. Is it petty? Yup. But how does any of that constitute an unfair labor practice? No one is entitled to someone else's lunch run or a shift swap.

Union or not, if your coworkers like you I'm sure they'll still help you out regardless of what Micky D's says. If you're a piece of shit, leaving the union will only further damage your relationship with your coworkers and just make it easier for them to hit you with the "sorry dude I've got plans that day" in perpetuity.

 

[Horno]

The Slate book doesn’t have enough in it to address the reality in a lot of the bigger facilities of Extreme Staffing shortages and mandatory OT. There needs to be an ability to get to double time or better if you’re getting mandatory holdover, to make it actually punitive on management to assign.

I understand the people at low level facilities struggling to get by, but there’s also an issue when you’re scheduled for 48 OTs a year. The 1.5X pay is nice every now and then, but trust me that most of us would honestly rather just make our base pay and get 2 days off.

The contract could have something to address any of this. Any kind of language that the first full 8 hour OT in a pay period Is 1.5X, the second one pays double. Anything. But just re-upping this contract when alot of our work lives absolutely suck is just kind of head scratching.

The cynic in me says the NATCA leadership doesn’t GAF because they don’t work the boards, they aren’t there working 5 under the staffing number 6 days a week, every week. To them we’re all just complainers.

I’m happy to shift swap w a non member who shows up to work traffic 6 days a week. I have more in common w that guy than with the Rep or RVP who’s been hiding from working traffic for a decade, and telling anybody who questions them that they’re just too ungrateful and don’t understand the big picture.

At the next constitution meeting someone should propose all RVPs should work a minimum of 1 day a week on the floor so our elected leaders can come back and see reality.

 

[Smitty]

biggest joke ive read in this thread by far lmfao

"A large percentage of us think we're upper class."

There, fixed it. Every facility has its slumdog millionaires, even the little level 4 shitholes w rest of US locality lol

 

[EchoTangoCharlie]

What exactly would they go after him for?

Was it stupid to say the quiet part out loud on a public website? Yup. Is it petty? Yup. But how does any of that constitute an unfair labor practice? No one is entitled to someone else's lunch run or a shift swap.

Union or not, if your coworkers like you I'm sure they'll still help you out regardless of what Micky D's says. If you're a piece of shit, leaving the union will only further damage your relationship with your coworkers and just make it easier for them to hit you with the "sorry dude I've got plans that day" in perpetuity.

“Each employee shall have the right to form, join, or assist any labor organization, or to refrain from any such activity, freely and without fear of penalty or reprisal, and each employee shall be protected in the exercise of such right.”

Without fear of penalty or reprisal. If management said “if you join the union, you won’t get any shift swaps approved” it’s a an ULP, so what is the difference here? Entitled to a lunch run or not doesn’t matter.

 

[pedaNTIc]

New 804 collaboration announced by NATCA: all centers and tracons to consolidate radar positions to one super facility in Bozeman, Montana...

Sign me up for everything after this, for that. Level 12 pay in BZN? Fuck yeah.

Actually these days you'd need that pay to buy a house there.

 

[32andBelow]

I have not observered or heard of anyone changing like any of their habits or spending due to inflation. Y’all all really having a hard time spending 20 dollars more for gas. But housing going up like 500% was fine?

 

[FightingIrish2012]

"A large percentage of us think we're upper class."

There, fixed it. Every facility has its slumdog millionaires, even the little level 4 shitholes w rest of US locality lol

I used to know a guy at a level five who used to brag about his 75K income like he was a boss. He would say, "the average family income in this city is listed as 28K on Wikipedia, so I make about 3X the family average just on my own". That guy failed to realize or ignored how deceiving that stat is in all cities, basically averages in all the zero income people/families who live off the system, or retired people on pensions/401k income, and that dramatically brings the numbers down.

 

[rhombus]

“Each employee shall have the right to form, join, or assist any labor organization, or to refrain from any such activity, freely and without fear of penalty or reprisal, and each employee shall be protected in the exercise of such right.”

Without fear of penalty or reprisal. If management said “if you join the union, you won’t get any shift swaps approved” it’s a an ULP, so what is the difference here? Entitled to a lunch run or not doesn’t matter.

There is a difference between completely taking away someone's right to swap shifts and those shift swaps actually getting accepted. I don't have an obligation to accept any shift swaps sent to me. I also don't have an obligation to ask anyone if they want lunch while I'm out. We do these things because we want to or don't want to. Entitlement matters here.

 

[Smitty]

I used to know a guy at a level five who used to brag about his 75K income like he was a boss. He would say, "the average family income in this city is listed as 28K on Wikipedia, so I make about 3X the family average just on my own". That guy failed to realize or ignored how deceiving that stat is in all cities, basically averages in all the zero income people/families who live off the system, or retired people on pensions/401k income, and that dramatically brings the numbers down.

the guy who runs NCEPT told MSNBC that he may have to sell a Motorcycle (3:30) after missing 2 checks on double controller income, so controllers can not possbly be upper class, and this is definitive proof!

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=363474904209376

 

[EchoTangoCharlie]

There is a difference between completely taking away someone's right to swap shifts and those shift swaps actually getting accepted. I don't have an obligation to accept any shift swaps sent to me. I also don't have an obligation to ask anyone if they want lunch while I'm out. We do these things because we want to or don't want to. Entitlement matters here.

I get what you are saying, and as a non lawyer (who despises Mick), I think there is some “there” there when it comes to the reprisal portion of it. It’s probably just me wanting to see him go down and grasping at straws.

 

[ATC Zero]

the guy who runs NCEPT told MSNBC that he may have to sell a Motorcycle (3:30) after missing 2 checks on double controller income, so controllers can not possbly be upper class, and this is definitive proof!

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=363474904209376

The face of the union, Prime Douche bag. The fact that these guys are representing everyone on tv making $150k+ and acting like they are hurting please biotch. There are way bigger systemic problems that they never seem to make progress on and just keep tooting their horns and talking bad about all who are sick of it and leave.

 

[MJ]

All 16 of those people could/maybe should go after him for this.

Anyone can, and IMO should

What exactly would they go after him for?

Was it stupid to say the quiet part out loud on a public website? Yup. Is it petty? Yup. But how does any of that constitute an unfair labor practice? No one is entitled to someone else's lunch run or a shift swap.

Union or not, if your coworkers like you I'm sure they'll still help you out regardless of what Micky D's says. If you're a piece of shit, leaving the union will only further damage your relationship with your coworkers and just make it easier for them to hit you with the "sorry dude I've got plans that day" in perpetuity.

Believe it or not, there's these laws that govern what unions can and can't do. Wannabe mobsters are generally discouraged. crazy right

 

[Homsar]

There is a difference between completely taking away someone's right to swap shifts and those shift swaps actually getting accepted. I don't have an obligation to accept any shift swaps sent to me. I also don't have an obligation to ask anyone if they want lunch while I'm out. We do these things because we want to or don't want to. Entitlement matters here.

To dust off one of my STS regulars, you’re making a straw man here. We’re not taking about the ability to submit swap requests, we’re talking about a direct reprisal being called for against someone due to their choice to not participate in the union.

The exact quote from the newsletter was this:

“Union members should be excluding them from shift swaps, lunch runs, the ability to work credit for them to take leave, etc.”

The quote from the ULP law:

“Each employee shall have the right to form, join, or assist any labor organization, or to refrain from any such activity, freely and without fear of penalty or reprisal, and each employee shall be protected in the exercise of such right.”

I’m not a lawyer, but I think they have a rock-solid argument that the quoted statement from Mick is a clear attempt at infringing their right to choose to not be in the union “without fear of penalty of reprisal ,” as saying union members “should” not honor their requests is absolutely advocating for a reprisal for them due to them leaving the union.

The link in the first post to Natca’s publishing of this newsletter leading to a deleted page is telling, too. Of course they would never take responsibility for it and apologize, better to just scrub the evidence.

[edit] forgot a few words

 

[Smitty]

The link in the first post to Natca’s publishing of this newsletter is telling, too. Of course they would never take responsibility for it and apologize.

consciousness of guilt!

 

[Ezas123]

I’m sure the department of labor would love to see that documentation

 

[rhombus]

To dust off one of my STS regulars, you’re making a straw man here. We’re not taking about the ability to submit swap requests, we’re talking about a direct reprisal being called for against someone due to their choice to not participate in the union.

The exact quote from the newsletter was this:

“Union members should be excluding them from shift swaps, lunch runs, the ability to work credit for them to take leave, etc.”

The quote from the ULP law:

“Each employee shall have the right to form, join, or assist any labor organization, or to refrain from any such activity, freely and without fear of penalty or reprisal, and each employee shall be protected in the exercise of such right.”

I’m not a lawyer, but I think they have a rock-solid argument that the quoted statement from Mick is a clear attempt at infringing their right to choose to not be in the union “without fear of penalty of reprisal ,” as saying union members “should” not honor their requests is absolutely advocating for a reprisal for them due to them leaving the union.

The link in the first post to Natca’s publishing of this newsletter is telling, too. Of course they would never take responsibility for it and apologize.

Shift swaps, lunch runs, and working credit for someone so they can take leave are favors that we do for one another. Essentially what he wrote was “Stop doing favors for those that left the Union but continue to do what is contractually obligated of us”.

I just don’t see the argument holding up or anything happening to him because of it