Robert_Boucher
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Why OJTI?
NCEPT debate thread
- Thread starter DeltaEEZulu
- Start date
Renewed focus on training, could be a new requirement.
Gotta train your replacement ??♂️
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Neither of those have a hand in what staffing is, so it doesn’t make much sense.
Which means you’re probably correct.
CICs absolutely have a hand in staffing at lower level facilities. Unless they are going to put managers on every shift, which no one wants, it will always be that way. and everyone should be an OJTI, management should ensure they are doing their job, which they don't currently and the union should back them up on this, its benefits everyone involved. they are about to enforce a training time per week per trainee minimum, and many facilities have way too many trainees because the projected numbers are assuming that only a certain percentage of trainees will certify. The projected numbers are wrong and are putting facilities down the crapper with adding way too many trainees in some cases. look at all the facilities over the past few years who have had 1/1 cpc/trainee ratio, but not all of them ojti? its making for lousy training and lousy staffing using DEVs on every shift.
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I believe NCEPT uses current/projected CPC’s in it’s equation, not CIC’s.
correct, but in reality CICs are a factor in staffing and screwing trainees over because without CICs some facilities cant train as much as they should be allowed too.
penaltyvectors
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If you’re not willing to train your replacement, why should you get to leave your facility ahead of people who are actually doing their part to increase your staffing numbers?
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They def do for smaller facilities. We've had to go ATC zero before because someone called in sick and the swing was 1 CIC, 1 CPC, and a trainee with ground and the CIC needed a break at some point.
GulfBravoPapa
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Some facilities have restrictions on who can be an OJTI, it's not always a controller's choice. At my previous facility three OSs had to recommend you to be a trainer.
These intricacies are the reason the ncept isn’t completly successful. Yes bodies matter, but also what types of bodies and how to get there is just as important and when the original numbers were collaborated all facilities did not consider all possible staffing impacts and the ncept had no way of adapting to an evolving staff at each individual facility. Just send bodies places created this chum fest because every idiot at your facility doesn’t care about the facility they are about to leave when they blast out errs or block your co workers.
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PushingTin
Guest
THIS. Some facilities treat CIC like its an entitlement they can hang over your head until you bow down and bend the knee. Some treat it as a popularity contest. While other facilities treat it normally (and IMO how it should be) and a natural progression of training and career development... when you have the qualifications and minimum time, start moving you towards becoming CIC and/or OJTI. To me its one thing to say as an opinion... "I wouldnt want THAT GUY training so and so", or im not sure id be comfortable with him/her in charge "if the shit hits the fan"! I think these are natural things to say and think, but on paper and in pure black and white if someone has the credentials to level up, then petty BS shouldnt stand in their way. A cop can pull you over and give 4 tickets or none, they have a certain amount of discretion. same with an ATM, Rep, FLM. You may be a trainer but that doesn't mean they assign you to many training teams or make you primary. To equate ERR NCEPT panels w OJTI/CIC qualifications illustrates major ignorance on what really goes on in the ops and on the floor. Like others have said, because its so stupid; wouldnt surprise me if this was true. Dynamic Decisions at the table, said Whitey Bulger.
p.s. shame on all the peeps out their holding down others career progression for petty political and power trip reasons! Any rep or sup who keeps a brutha/sista down unnecessarily is a POS.
Mike Kilo
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Exactly what others have said. I have trained at both my previous facilities and will again I’m sure. But you and I have both seen controllers that you wouldn’t wish on any trainee. But beyond that as stated management does not let everyone train or everyone be CIC. Thus, it cannot be a fair way to police movement.
I could see them saying you must be certified the same amount of time it took you to train before bidding out.
FightingIrish2012
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This is a problem the other problems with policies that say something like “you have to stay as a CPC for at least as long as you were a trainee” is that some low level facilities are full of old Dick bags who would string training out for 3 years because they used to be busy when they should certify people in 9 months. #weusedtobebsuy
Robert_Boucher
Forum Sage
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Back in my day we used to run fighters to both sides of the the runway and just call traffic all day with our eyes closed.
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So.. NCEPT was created under the pretense that it would help alleviate the pains of long, indefinite release dates, as well as somehow supposedly help with the shortage of controllers.
The possibility to transfer to another facility is based on the current and anticipated number of CPC’s. That, along with the ever-changing national average. “Too many” transfers have occurred and now too many CPC’s are in training.
The rumor above my post says that now, another acronym could be included in the process of how or when a controller can transfer. So they could now use both the number of CPC’s and CIC’s in determining how, when, and if a facility is eligible to release/accept new applicants.
My question is: Why stop there?
Why not include a multitude of other arbitrary factors into the Excel spreadsheet to expand the equation even further?
There must be 2 female controllers for every 3 male controllers. The number of warm bodies in the immediate vicinity of the facility must outweigh the number of cold bodies that left. Leap years, moon phases, religious beliefs..
To be continued.
The possibility to transfer to another facility is based on the current and anticipated number of CPC’s. That, along with the ever-changing national average. “Too many” transfers have occurred and now too many CPC’s are in training.
The rumor above my post says that now, another acronym could be included in the process of how or when a controller can transfer. So they could now use both the number of CPC’s and CIC’s in determining how, when, and if a facility is eligible to release/accept new applicants.
My question is: Why stop there?
Why not include a multitude of other arbitrary factors into the Excel spreadsheet to expand the equation even further?
There must be 2 female controllers for every 3 male controllers. The number of warm bodies in the immediate vicinity of the facility must outweigh the number of cold bodies that left. Leap years, moon phases, religious beliefs..
To be continued.
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PushingTin
Guest
This is the same thing that inevitably happens with government. It grows and grows and more and more rules are created and more and more "fixes" are implemented and you end up with literally thousands upon thousands of pages of regs and violations and orders. There is a new NATCA head of NCEPT and they want to put their stamp on things. "There MUST be changes made! Dynamic decisions at the table!" We have someone who can barely speak English at the table. Well meaning but incompetent people are very dangerous. 1984 has arrived.
“If people cannot write well, they cannot think well, and if they cannot think well, others will do their thinking for them.”
