Ncept is solid program

then come up with more training opportunities outside of the operation, or use your staff support specialist to be more useful. That way your shitty fucking manager actually has other impediments to use. They are just being fucking lazy, your Natca training rep is also and instead we shit on the union for so many things but locally this is something they have legitimate control over. But it’s not as sexy as arguing about a contract extension so I get it, you bitches use it to just complain but hardly any do anything to make it better.
 
I know. It’s the height of laziness and doesn’t not solve anything except making feel that they really don’t have to train hard cuz they will have all these hours
I don't think it's lazy per se. Some facilities with seasonal traffic would adjust training hours within reason to make sure that they effectively prepped the trainee to do their job. Unfortunately there were a lot of facilities that took that to the extreme and here we are.
 
I don't think it's lazy per se. Some facilities with seasonal traffic would adjust training hours within reason to make sure that they effectively prepped the trainee to do their job. Unfortunately there were a lot of facilities that took that to the extreme and here we are.
ill completely blame the FAA on the seasonal facilities. one of the impediments is no traffic to train on, how the facility does not produce that data to show that or come up with some plan to combat the complete lack of traffic for 6 months or whatever of the year is unacceptable. how the FAA doesn't accept that's the reality and treat those facilities different and how the local union doesn't fight that for more resources or get some leeway in either training pauses or something that's appropriate ill never understand. doubling/adding hours is lazy, mostly by the faa, and very short sighted by the union.
 
ill completely blame the FAA on the seasonal facilities. one of the impediments is no traffic to train on, how the facility does not produce that data to show that or come up with some plan to combat the complete lack of traffic for 6 months or whatever of the year is unacceptable. how the FAA doesn't accept that's the reality and treat those facilities different and how the local union doesn't fight that for more resources or get some leeway in either training pauses or something that's appropriate ill never understand. doubling/adding hours is lazy, mostly by the faa, and very short sighted by the union.
That is one of the impediments that local management removed.... Facrep here... 🤷‍♂️
 
ill completely blame the FAA on the seasonal facilities. one of the impediments is no traffic to train on, how the facility does not produce that data to show that or come up with some plan to combat the complete lack of traffic for 6 months or whatever of the year is unacceptable. how the FAA doesn't accept that's the reality and treat those facilities different and how the local union doesn't fight that for more resources or get some leeway in either training pauses or something that's appropriate ill never understand. doubling/adding hours is lazy, mostly by the faa, and very short sighted by the union.
I still don’t understand why doubling hours is lazy. Letting the kid train on slow traffic than busy traffic is better than making them sit and do nothing for 6 months till you deem it’s busy enough.
 
I still don’t understand why doubling hours is lazy. Letting the kid train on slow traffic than busy traffic is better than making them sit and do nothing for 6 months till you deem it’s busy enough.
it gives the training team comfort in knowing they dont have to work hard. well double the hours, he will get better. it also forces facilities to rehash shitty trainees who get recycled, because of some fuck up for that now HUGE number of hours. they didnt wash them before you think they will this time? fuck no. and if you care about of this sort of thing its a waste of money in many cases. and it keeps people longer in the pipeline slowing down training because people in many cases arent doing the work preventing movement throughout the nas.
 
it gives the training team comfort in knowing they dont have to work hard. well double the hours, he will get better. it also forces facilities to rehash shitty trainees who get recycled, because of some fuck up for that now HUGE number of hours. they didnt wash them before you think they will this time? fuck no. and if you care about of this sort of thing its a waste of money in many cases. and it keeps people longer in the pipeline slowing down training because people in many cases arent doing the work preventing movement throughout the nas.
Ok so you’d prefer they just not train and do nothing for half a year? That makes no sense.
 
Lets delay training so they see deice. Lets delay training so they see SWAP. Lets delay training because traffic levels aren't back to where I think they should be.

People will move the goal post every time. If they can do the day to day and learn and continue to build upon the basics then hopefully when shit hits the fan they don't fuck it up. Any controller that had good fundamentals wouldn't cause an AUS type incident imo.

I have no problem increasing training times since we train 2-3x more then what the target hours were made for. The minimums were left the same so if the trainee got it, they were done quick. The past 2 facilities Ive been at didn't give a shit about any training impediments. You either get live traffic or it didn't matter. Not much time for the trainee to decompress and try to absorb anything. Just taking short breaks to get right back into position.
 
Lets delay training so they see deice. Lets delay training so they see SWAP. Lets delay training because traffic levels aren't back to where I think they should be.

People will move the goal post every time. If they can do the day to day and learn and continue to build upon the basics then hopefully when shit hits the fan they don't fuck it up. Any controller that had good fundamentals wouldn't cause an AUS type incident imo.

I have no problem increasing training times since we train 2-3x more then what the target hours were made for. The minimums were left the same so if the trainee got it, they were done quick. The past 2 facilities Ive been at didn't give a shit about any training impediments. You either get live traffic or it didn't matter. Not much time for the trainee to decompress and try to absorb anything. Just taking short breaks to get right back into position.
Practicing almost any scenario when it’s slow will help in the future when it’s busy. So that when it’s busy you can just do the task you’ve done before
 
Ok so you’d prefer they just not train and do nothing for half a year? That makes no sense.
No I just think we all know that a trainee isn’t gonna make it sooner than we currently document or don’t document what they are bad at sooner. And Supes don’t get involved or are even allowed by the workforce because here you all think I’m a supe saying the training needs to get better
 
Lets delay training so they see deice. Lets delay training so they see SWAP. Lets delay training because traffic levels aren't back to where I think they should be.

People will move the goal post every time. If they can do the day to day and learn and continue to build upon the basics then hopefully when shit hits the fan they don't fuck it up. Any controller that had good fundamentals wouldn't cause an AUS type incident imo.

I have no problem increasing training times since we train 2-3x more then what the target hours were made for. The minimums were left the same so if the trainee got it, they were done quick. The past 2 facilities Ive been at didn't give a shit about any training impediments. You either get live traffic or it didn't matter. Not much time for the trainee to decompress and try to absorb anything. Just taking short breaks to get right back into position.
Management has begun to use the nti as a resume item, so they don’t care about the impediments. They see value in trying to promote themselves as Having “overcome” the impediments and they see the NTI as a hard and fast work assignment, not as a aspirative guideline like it is. How can the agency try to study and rectify what the national and regional impediments to training are if managers feel they won’t get promoted unless they firewall the hours regardless of actual impediments. Like a total lack of traffic due to weather. But if all facilities report hitting their goals, the agency might actually believe that there are no impediments to training at all.

It’s a good idea, hamstrung by poor management and every idiot supervisor
Thinking their raise is on the line if they aren’t getting the NTI done, regardless of the situation.
 
No I just think we all know that a trainee isn’t gonna make it sooner than we currently document or don’t document what they are bad at sooner. And Supes don’t get involved or are even allowed by the workforce because here you all think I’m a supe saying the training needs to get better
You don’t have to max out someone’s hours to wash them out. That’s a myth. You can actually fail them out in the lab like any time. It’s called skill deficiency training
 
You don’t have to max out someone’s hours to wash them out. That’s a myth. You can actually fail them out in the lab like any time. It’s called skill deficiency training
I know you don’t. But how many facilities do? They are few and far between, and those places are the ones raising hours Willy nilly
 
I know you don’t. But how many facilities do? They are few and far between, and those places are the ones raising hours Willy nilly
Mine does. But it’s also been recognized that the hours should be looked at so people don’t run out while they are still making good progress
 
Welcome to middle management.
There were multiple mid level facilities about 10 years ago with 4-5 year training times because training was seen as a privilege, not something that was part of the job. Obviously that’s not good. The faa considers 2.5 years a max training time at an up/down, more than that and it’s considered a facility issue. Some places needed to be told that they had to train and had to have the gun put to their heads, so to speak. Now it’s gone too far the other way, you are training merely for the sake of training, not because it’s about learning to be a better controller and improving your skills.
 
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There were multiple mid level facilities about 10 years with 4-5 year training times because training was seen as a privilege. Obviously that’s not good. The faa considers 2.5 years a max training time at an up/down, more than that it’s a facility issue. Some places needed to be told that they had to train. Now it’s gone too far the other way, you are training merely for the sake of training, not because it’s a good time to train.
Just let people train more. It’s really simple.
 
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